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To: the_conscience
We cannot have faith apart from God's revelation, but we CAN respond to him with faith. Indeed, we are commanded to do so, and rebuked when we do not.

Mat 21:32 "For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. And even when you saw it, you did not afterward change your minds and believe him.

Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen.

Luk 24:25 And he said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!

Jhn 20:8 Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed;

Jhn 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Jhn 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Act 11:21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number who believed turned to the Lord.

1Cr 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

2Ti 3:15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Belief is in response to God's revelation, but it is not a gift given after salvation. In each of the above verses, believing is something WE do in response to an input, or not.

Why would God rebuke you for not having what he alone can give?

"And speaking of Rome, if it weren't for these Reformers who all believed in sovereign grace you would still be kissing the Pope's ring and bowing to statues of Mary."

Oh yes. I've spent a lot of time bowing to statues of Mary - NOT! And you accuse ME of infantile reasoning?

Speaking of Tyndale:


88 posted on 02/28/2010 4:00:31 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers; Dr. Eckleburg
Why would God rebuke you for not having what he alone can give?

Again, you got to understand the story of redemption. We are born in Adam but that doesn't change what's required. God promised in Gen 3 that the seed of Eve would crush Satan. He didn't say anything about how man had to have some self-produced faith to meet any conditions. Simply the seed would do the work.

Adam was supposed to work his way to glorification but failed and we all died in him to God. And as you read through the OT God is always the one who does the work to save his people. The OT points to the one who will do the work for them.

Making faith a work is no different than any other work. It makes faith a law and as Paul said numerous times if you live by the law you will die by the law. Faith is always passive and merely receives and rests on the true power.

97 posted on 02/28/2010 4:16:56 PM PST by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: Mr Rogers
"Oh yes. I've spent a lot of time bowing to statues of Mary - NOT! And you accuse ME of infantile reasoning? "

OK, I could have written that sentence better.

"And speaking of Rome, if it weren't for these Reformers who all believed in sovereign grace you we would all still be kissing the Pope's ring and bowing to statues of Mary."

105 posted on 02/28/2010 4:58:32 PM PST by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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