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To: blue-duncan

“According to what you are saying God is making an offer He knows is not valid to some since by foreknowledge or whatever, he knows that only certain ones will believe and therefore they are the ones to whom the offer is directed.”

I am saying no such thing. The offer is valid to everyone. He knows who will choose what, but THEY choose. And they will live or die by the choice they make. It is a real choice.

As a rough analogy...if I give my son (in his 20s) some cash now, and tell him to spend it wisely, I know (OK, I predict with a high probability of being correct) he will waste it. The money would be real, his choice would be real, the money would be wasted...but my call to him to spend it wisely would be real & valid.

Obviously, I don’t know the future. God does. But the idea is the same - God knows what the real choices will be before they are made, without forcing them to be made that way.

““Whosoever believeth...” must refer to those whom God knows will believe since God does not do useless things.”

A genuine offer made to all, knowing many will reject it, isn’t a useless thing. In the end, God will still have sons predestined to be like Christ, and those who have rejected him will have demonstrated his patience, mercy, goodness & justice. When they are condemned, they will have no excuse before God. And all will see (I believe those condemned will know as well) that God has been both very loving, very merciful, and very just.

And thus God will be glorified, not for being powerful enough to destroy anyone he chooses, but for being merciful, long-suffering, loving and just.


772 posted on 03/09/2010 7:47:35 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers; blue-duncan; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; raynearhood; xzins; P-Marlowe; RnMomof7; ...
You offer truisms that no one is denying, but you cannot answer the point blue-duncan is making --

BLUE-DUNCAN: "According to what you are saying God is making an offer He knows is not valid to some since by foreknowledge or whatever, he knows that only certain ones will believe and therefore they are the ones to whom the offer is directed. The offer is useless to those God knows will not believe."

That paragraph is Scripturally and logically coherent. And you don't have an answer for it. A prudent man would then seek to reconcile his understanding of the Bible with these true statements.

"Even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him." -- Numbers 16:5

"For the promise is made unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call." -- Acts 2:39

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." -- John 17:9

You have no answers for these verses.

778 posted on 03/09/2010 10:04:37 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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