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To: kosta50; betty boop; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix; spirited irish; MHGinTN; Godzilla
Thank you for your reply, dear kosta50!

You evidently do not consider my claim of a brother to be extraordinary requiring evidence, but you evidently do consider my claim of God to be extraordinary requiring evidence.

It is obvious to me that God the Creator is not obvious to you. Therefore, the passages from Romans 1 above apply.

The Creation of the present heaven and earth happened, therefore I used the past tense.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Genesis 1:1

These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, - Genesis 2:4

The Creation of the new heaven and new earth is yet to come.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. - Revelation 21:1-8

As an interesting side note concerning the second death mentioned above:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die [literally, muwth muwth or “death death”]. – Genesis 2:17

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. – Matthew 10:28

God's Name is I AM.

741 posted on 03/08/2010 10:04:28 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix; spirited irish; MHGinTN; Godzilla
Tanks again AG. You write You evidently do not consider my claim of a brother to be extraordinary requiring evidence, but you evidently do consider my claim of God to be extraordinary requiring evidence.

Correct, because brothers are not extraordinary occurrence, but a common one among people; because we have seen brothers and sisters, and because in this particular case establishing the veracity of such a claim is not of extreme importance to all of us.

I have no reason to doubt your claim of having a brother because it is of no particular significance to our existential understanding of the world, what happenes to us when we die, what this is all about, etc. Whether God exists or not, on the other hand, is of extreme imprtance to most if not all people because it touches tot he core of our existence.

Under different circumstances, your claim of a having a brother, however, would have to be scrutinized. Situations in which having a sibling is important, such as inhertance claims and next of kin issues owuld be good exmnaples. In that case your claim could not be taken on your word because the information is of such importance that it must be verified.

With God there is not such thing as relative importance. The existence of God is of afects all aspects of our lives and claims about his existence cannot be taken lightly or casually, so all of them require rigorous evidence.

Now, if you told me that you have a brother who lives on Jupiter and raises pink unicorns on a farm there, I might be a little less inclined to believe you.

It is obvious to me that God the Creator is not obvious to you. Therefore, the passages from Romans 1 above apply.

It applies to you. It proves nothing. You could believe that Snow White really happened, it doesn't prove that it did. Again, universal claims about God are not something one can just hang on "personal experience" and "inner reality" or some proverbial spiritual "eyes and ears" and such nonsense. It's a topic that is too important to all of humanity to be reduced to unverifiable, personal, anecdotal, cultural, tribal and other human variables.

When something is important, you need hard facts, as in the case of blood transfusions, or your siblings in cases of inheritance, or establishing a genetic match for purposes of organ transplants, etc. We can't go on hearsay and anecdotal tales on such issues, as doing would be outright irresponsible and even potentially perilous.

The Creation of the present heaven and earth happened, therefore I used the past tense

LOL, go back to the post and see that you wrote "there was a Creator" and not "there was a Creation."

The Creation of the new heaven and new earth is yet to come

It's irrelevant. The relevant part is that you wrote "there was a Creator." Why not just admit it was typo, an honest mistake, and move on?

As an interesting side note concerning the second death mentioned above:

It's sad that God (or more likely someone pretending to speak for God) has to threaten people to make them believe and that people believe in order to be saved from God instead of by God.

754 posted on 03/09/2010 7:21:29 AM PST by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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