“Odd, isn’t it, that Cornelius received an angel of the Lord with a message before he was saved. He was even commended. And a centurion was commended for his “great faith” - even odder, since faith is a gift, and not something the centurion could have had... “
Sarcasm aside, there is no mention of Cornelius’ “great faith” in the scriptures. What you do find in the story is God’s leading him to salvation with no mention of his exercising faith. It was all of God.
Acts 10:20, “Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.” Acts 11:13-15, “And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.” Acts 15:7, “And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.”
“And in Acts 2, were they cut to the quick before or after they believed and were baptized?”
Vs. 37, “ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
The Holy Spirit convicted them of sin before they believed and were baptized. That is the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit. They were dead in trespasses and sin and quickened, brought to life, and recognized their condition.
Jhn 16:7-8, “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment”
“The unbeliever is separated from God, dead spiritually, just as Jesus was dead physically, and the exceeding great power that raised Jesus from the dead also quickens the unbeliever so that they can exercise the faith to be saved that was included in the abounding grace of God”
“Actually, that is wrong. Unless and until God abandons us, we are never described as so dead we cannot repent. Remember the Prodigal Son? He was dead, but he repented without his father’s kidnapping him.”
When one reads the context of the parable of the Prodigal son they will find the subject is the father’s searching for the son. It is the father’s love, not the son’s change of heart that is being taught.
Luke 15: 1-2, “All the tax collectors and sinners came to listen to Jesus. But the Pharisees and the scribes complained, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”
Vs. 3-7, Concerns a shepherd searching for a lost sheep, not the condition of the sheep Vs. 8-10, Concerns a woman searching for a lost silver coin, not the condition of the coin. Vs. 11-20, Concerns a father looking for his lost son, not the condition of the son.
“There actually aren’t all that many passages talking about us as ‘dead’ prior to conversion. Most passages talk about us being lost, or slaves, or rebels, or disobedient, or sinners.”
The passage in Eph. 5:14, “Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.” uses the Ezek. 37:4-14 prophecy to demonstrate forcibly the idea that unbelievers are spiritually dead and only the breath of God can bring them back to life.
Jesus refers to that same passage in defending himself against the attack of the Jews concerning the Sabbath.
John 5:24-25, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
“And there isn’t a single verse where God says he regenerates those whose names are on his list, and gives them faith. That seems kind of odd, if that is God’s plan of salvation.”
Eph. 1:4-5, “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”
Jn. 1:13, “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
Col 2:13, “And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
Jas. 1:18, “Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”
Jn. 3:3-6, “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
Tit. 3:5-6, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;”
Eph. 2:1, “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;”
Rom. 8:29-30, “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
INDEED.
And quite well put, imho.
Thx.
BD “Sarcasm aside, there is no mention of Cornelius’ “great faith” in the scriptures. What you do find in the story is God’s leading him to salvation with no mention of his exercising faith. It was all of God. “
Hmm...Acts 10: “ 1At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, 2a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed continually to God. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God come in and say to him, “Cornelius.” 4And he stared at him in terror and said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have ascended as a memorial before God. 5And now send men to Joppa and bring one Simon who is called Peter. 6He is lodging with one Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea.” 7When the angel who spoke to him had departed, he called two of his servants and a devout soldier from among those who attended him, 8and having related everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.”
Did Cornelius receive commendation from God prior to his conversion, and did he interact with God prior to receiving the Holy Spirit?
BD “The Holy Spirit convicted them of sin before they believed and were baptized. That is the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit. They were dead in trespasses and sin and quickened, brought to life, and recognized their condition. “
No, this is the Holy Spirit convicting. To be born again requires the Holy Spirit in you, which is the promise in Acts 2. God convicts. Those who repent and believe are baptized in the Holy Spirit, and become new creations. “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God...” Receiving and believing precede becoming the child of God - being born ‘from above’.
“When one reads the context of the parable of the Prodigal son they will find the subject is the father’s searching for the son. It is the father’s love, not the son’s change of heart that is being taught.”
I recommend John MacArthur’s sermons (a set of two) on the Prodigal Son. Like Calvin, MacArthur does better teaching verse by verse than he does when he tries to teach systematically! It is the father’s love WHEN the son repents and returns. The father doesn’t go to the rebellious son and bring him irresistibly home.
I wrote: “And there isn’t a single verse where God says he regenerates those whose names are on his list, and gives them faith. That seems kind of odd, if that is God’s plan of salvation.”
BD lists the following in response...my comments in []:
Eph. 1:4-5, “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”
[Discussed in my response in my post above. Ephesians 1-2 is about us IN CHRIST. Corporate election.]
Jn. 1:13, “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
[As I pointed out earlier, those who believe are then born...not those who are born then believe. “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”]
Col 2:13, “And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
[Yes, those who have been forgiven are born again, and live...what does this have to do with election by name to salvation vs corporate election?]
Jas. 1:18, “Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”
[Again - no idea how this involves individual salvation by a list of names. God chose to save whosoever believes - that is his will, as repeatedly spoken in scripture. It is God’s will to do so, not our plan that we compelled God to accept.]
Jn. 3:3-6, “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
[Yes, and as John has already pointed out: “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God...” And as John 3 goes on to point out, whoever believes shall live, and whoever refuses to shall be condemned.]
Tit. 3:5-6, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;”
[Exactly. No one is saying we earn salvation by our good deeds, but by receiving the gift of salvation made by God to all who believe.]
Eph. 2:1, “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;”
[Yes. And who is it he gives life to? Whoever believes. It never says, as I pointed out in the beginning, that he gives life so that someone can believe.]
Rom. 8:29-30, “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
[Yes, God foreknows everyone and everything. Predestination is what those in Christ will become - conformed to the image of Jesus.]
The Holy Spirit convicted them of sin before they believed and were baptized. That is the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit. They were dead in trespasses and sin and quickened, brought to life, and recognized their condition.
Amen!
The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy." -- Psalm 147:10-11 "He delighteth not in the strength of the horse: he taketh not pleasure in the legs of a man.