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To: Mr Rogers; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; raynearhood; xzins; RnMomof7; the_conscience
Do Calvinists ever read scripture, or do they just read verses in a list?

I'll compare Calvin's Systematic Theology to Arminian's any day. Oops....Arminian doesn't have one. Well then perhaps some other Arminian's detailed systematic theology. Oops, there are no detailed Arminian systematic theology. There are hodge-podge bits but nothing as exhaustive as Calvin's. In fact, one complaint Calvinists often get on many Arminian websites is that we "have all the answers".

Well, our deep dark secret in our responses is that God is ultimately directly or indirectly responsible for everything. There, the cat is out of the bag. I've spilled the beans. There goes our Calvinist smugness. I can feel the Calvinists stones being hurled at me.

I've read your postings on faith. There are very few Christians either Calvinist OR Arminian who feel comfortable with saying that faith is not a gift from God. I know of no commentator who would agree with your position. That doesn't make your position wrong but it certainly should give you pause that you are outside of orthodox Christianity.

You may wish to examine this in a spiritual context. If you feel comfortable with going before the throne of God thanking Him that you've exercised your faith to choosed His Son, then have at it. I would seriously compare this to going before the throne thanking Him for helping us to see His gift through the faith He has given us.

657 posted on 03/06/2010 4:04:36 PM PST by HarleyD (Hating the "syner" but loving the "-gist".)
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To: HarleyD; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; raynearhood; xzins; RnMomof7; the_conscience; ...

“That doesn’t make your position wrong but it certainly should give you pause that you are outside of orthodox Christianity.”

If I were outside orthodox Christianity, there would be a simple scriptural refutation of my position. That is the implication of Sola Scriptura - if it is critical, it is clearly taught in scripture.

The fact that I’m still waiting for a single verse that explicitly and clearly teaches that faith is a gift we receive after being born again should give you pause.

It is true Arminians don’t produce lots of Systematic Theology texts. This may be because we consider evangelizing more important than theorizing. It may also indicate we trust the clarity of scripture.

What God has done for us is clearly and repeatedly shown in scripture - it doesn’t take a theology degree to understand. However, it would take a lot of theorizing to pull our salvation by election from scripture, when it so clearly contradicts the text.

“1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” - Romans 5

Are we justified by having our name on a list, being regenerated thru the secret process of God, and then given faith? Or have we been justified by faith?

Does faith give us access (”the ability, right, or permission to approach, enter, speak with, or use; admittance”) to grace in which we stand?

The problem isn’t that Calvinists have all the answers, but that they have the wrong ones. They’ve studied theology to the neglect of reading the Word of God.

From just the first 3 chapters of John, to keep it short...is believing something we do, or something God does to us? Is our belief in response to God, or is it something irresistibly given to us by God? Are there reasons for our belief, or does it just pop into us?

Jhn 1:7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him.
Jhn 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Jhn 1:50 Jesus answered him, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these.”
Jhn 2:11 This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory. And his disciples believed in him.
Jhn 2:22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
Jhn 2:23-24 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many believed in his name when they saw the signs that he was doing. But Jesus on his part did not entrust himself to them, because he knew all people
Jhn 3:12 “If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
Jhn 3:15 “that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:18 “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Jhn 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.


661 posted on 03/06/2010 4:59:00 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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