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To: P-Marlowe; Mr Rogers; Dr. Eckleburg; 1000 silverlings; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; HarleyD
A condition is a law is a work.

I'm sure you have a perfectly clear scripture to back up that statement.

The Bible isn't a dictionary that defines terms. We can certainly infer these relations in way the Bible speaks. A law in this sense is that a consequence will result from some conditions that are enacted. There must be some initial cause that moves it through the conditions that result in the consequences.

BTW "through faith" is a condition... unless that verse is just fluff.

The "through" describes the position of faith in the chain. Faith is a condition as an instrumental cause. As JI Packer quoting M Stibbs says:

The faith of the individual must be seen as having no value in itself, but as discovering value wholly and solely through movement towards and committal to Christ. It must be seen as simply a means of finding all one's hope outside oneself in the person and work of another; and not in any sense an originating cause or objective ground of justification. For true faith is active only in the man who is wholly occupied with Christ; its practice means that every blessing is received from another. For this reason faith is exclusive and intolerant of company; it is only truly present when any and every contribution towards his salvation on the part of the believer or on the part of the Church is absolutely and unequivocally shut out. Justification must be seen and received as a blessing dependent wholly and exclusively on Christ alone, on what he is and what he has done—a blessing enjoyed simply through being joined directly to him, through finding one's all in him, through drawing one's all from him, without the interposition of any other mediator or mediating channel whatever.

642 posted on 03/06/2010 11:46:35 AM PST by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: the_conscience
The Bible isn't a dictionary that defines terms.

I guess that means "no". Why can't you just say "no" when you mean "no"?

647 posted on 03/06/2010 12:46:50 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: the_conscience; P-Marlowe; 1000 silverlings; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; HarleyD
The Law is contrasted with faith as a means of salvation. In the former, Man merits salvation by his good deeds. In the latter, Man agrees he is worthless, repents, and accepts God's plan of salvation in Christ.

There is only one time is scripture that believing is called a 'work'. It is in John 6, and Jesus, asked what works (plural) man must do to gain God's approval, rather sarcastically replies that there is one work - believing in Jesus.

Further, we ARE told we are saved by the law of faith:

21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith." - Romans 3

Please note that nowhere in that passage is faith a gift given by God to those on a list of names, but something we have. Grace is a gift received by faith, not a gift received along with faith (24-25).

651 posted on 03/06/2010 1:42:43 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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