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To: P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; raynearhood; xzins; HarleyD; RnMomof7; the_conscience

“I asked you whether or not salvation is truly monergistic or whether it is synergistic.”

Yes.

“So what is it? Is God wholly responsible for those he saves or do men actually have to do something to secure their election.”

God’s foreknowledge is according to His predetermination and providence and is in keeping with the voluntary choices (choosing what we want or desire most). The choices are exercised voluntarily, not forced against our will, but the circumstances (be they prior prejudice, inclination, disposition, corrupt nature, culture etc.), that bring about these choices are through divine determinism (Acts 2:23, “Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”; 4:27-28, “For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done”). Our choices are only our choices because they are voluntary. They are what we want and we can choose no other.

A poor analogy, but the best I can come up with on a beautiful spring, Neener, Friday;

When I was first married and in Law School, it was K’s and my first anniversary. We lived in a second floor apartment. K worked as a Speech Therapist in the Waco school system. Mondays were terribly stressful for her as she did therapy in inner city schools. In spite of my wonderful cheerful nature K found fault with a couple of my minor eccentricities like loudly tromping up the stairs and turning up the stereo, especially when playing the nasal Dylan.

Seeing the anniversary fell on a Monday and knowing K would be stressed I bought flowers and an unaffordable gift hoping the surprise would cheer her up. Now the problem was how to give these gifts to her and get the biggest reaction for the bucks

So, I tromped up the stairs, extra loudly; banged open the door to the apartment; put a Dylan LP on the stereo and turned up the volume so loud that the neighbors could hear and put the flowers and gift on the stereo. Then I walked into the kitchenette just as K stormed out to turn down the stereo. I got the reaction I wanted, she was pleasantly surprised, and K by voluntarily reacting to the circumstances, received the gifts.

Before they made P-Marlowe, they broke the mold. S. J. Perelman


477 posted on 03/05/2010 8:58:17 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan
God’s foreknowledge is according to His predetermination...

I think this is where we disagree. God's predetermination is according His foreknowledge.

479 posted on 03/05/2010 9:03:09 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; raynearhood; xzins; HarleyD; RnMomof7; the_conscience
Yes.

That's the best answer I've seen yet.

489 posted on 03/05/2010 9:27:19 AM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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