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To: ShadowAce; blue-duncan; P-Marlowe

I do believe that knowing something does not cause it to happen. However, I also am certain that knowing something ahead of time means you know how it turns out. Otherwise, the word “know” has no meaning.

“From the foundation of the world” would mean at the same time as everything was created or that it was already in place when creation was happening. There’s no getting around that. Jesus sacrifice was known to be necessary AND established before one living soul was yet on this planet.

The only explanation for that is that God already knew the fall, the prescription, the cure, and the aftermath.

In short, the billions of lives and how they were FREELY lived on the earth was no secret to God PRIOR TO their having done anything.

Yet, The Redeemed were so important to God that despite all the pain, trauma, and turmoil of all history that fell on His Son, Jesus, He created anyway. This truth is everlastingly to His glory.

And thus, Brother ShadowAce, you have both Free Will and Predestination. But, this is biblical: “those He foreknew He predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son...”


177 posted on 03/02/2010 9:33:17 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
And thus, Brother ShadowAce, you have both Free Will and Predestination. But, this is biblical: “those He foreknew He predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son...”

This I agree with. I understand the the whole question is one of those mysteries we won't fully understand until we get there, but some positions on this are too outrageous.

I entered into these discussions years ago when a calvinist "mourned" that many of the aborted babies are going to hell without a chance to repent.

I took serious offense at that.

183 posted on 03/02/2010 11:14:17 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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