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To: Dr. Eckleburg
He does want all to be saved. But part of it is up to us. To seek Him. We are alive, and as long as we are alive we have this choice. Otherwise it would not be a relationship, the only situation in which mutual love can flourish. The obvious fact that not all are saved does not mean he does not want them to be saved. Remember the door that Jesus stands at has no doorknob or handle on the outside. All he can do is knock. But he wants us to answer. All of us.

I have always felt that Calvinists get caught in a mind knot on this particular point. Predetermination is circular reasoning, just like the circular reasoning in some Catholic pronouncements. The concept of free will gives us life and joy and a true involvement with our God.

108 posted on 02/28/2010 7:07:46 PM PST by firebrand
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To: firebrand; RnMomof7; the_conscience; HarleyD; blue-duncan
Otherwise it would not be a relationship, the only situation in which mutual love can flourish.

I don't mean to be rude, but that is not Scripture. That is the very best caring from Hallmark.

Remember the door that Jesus stands at has no doorknob or handle on the outside. All he can do is knock.

Oh, my. Could you provide some Scripture for the fact about the "no doorknob or handle" part? It's not in my KJV.

And if "all he (Jesus) can do is knock," then Paul would have continued to hunt down Christians on the road to Damascus instead of getting knocked on his keister and blinded by the Lord. Paul is emblematic of all of us. All men are fallen and none of us wants God, until God drags us to Him. As Paul learned, "Even when we were dead in sins, (God) hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) - Eph. 2:5

There was a time awhile ago when I would have found your post sufficient. Not so much any more.

The concept of free will gives us life and joy and a true involvement with our God.

If the Triune God of Scripture who created all existence is real, then free will is an illusion. There really is a better understanding.

"I frankly confess that, for myself, even if it could be, I should not want 'free-will' to be given me, nor anything to be left in my own hands to enable me to endeavour after salvation; not merely because in face of so many dangers, and adversities, and assaults of devils, I could not stand my ground and hold fast my 'free-will' (for one devil is stronger than all men, and on these terms no man could be saved) ; but because, even were there no dangers, adversities, or devils, I should still be forced to labour with no guarantee of success, and to beat my fists at the air. If I lived and worked to all eternity, my conscience would never reach comfortable certainty as to how much it must do to satisfy God, Whatever work I had done, there would still be a nagging doubt' as to whether it pleased God, or whether He required something more. The experience of all who seek righteousness by works proves that; and I learned it well enough myself over a period of many years, to my own great hurt. But now that God has taken my salvation out of the control of my own will, and put it under the control of His, and promised to save me, not according to my working or running, but according to His own grace and mercy, I have the comfort¬able certainty that He is faithful and will not lie to me, and that He is also great and powerful, so that no devils or opposition can break Him or pluck me from Him. `No one,´ He says, `shall pluck them out of my hand, because my Father which gave them me is greater than all´ (John 10.28-29). Thus it is that, if not all, yet some, indeed many, are saved; whereas, by the power of ´free-will´ none at all could be saved, but every one of us would perish.

"Furthermore, I have the comfortable certainty that I please God, not by reason of the merit of my works, but by reason of His merciful favour promised to me; so that, if I work too little, or badly, He does not impute it to me, but with fatherly compassion pardons me and makes me better. This is the glorying of all the saints in their God." -- Martin Luther, "Bondage of the Will" -- (xviii) Of the comfort of knowing that salvation does not depend on free-will' (783)

If you have the time and inclination, read Arthur W. Pink's tremendous work, "The Sovereignty of God." It is humbling and joyous. And free online. (Isn't the internet great?)

THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD

This is the faith of Jesus, of Paul, of John, of Calvin, of Luther, of Spurgeon, of Van Til, of Warfield, of Piper...

And it is offered to show just how far the modern church has strayed.

113 posted on 02/28/2010 9:17:57 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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