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To: Tramonto; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; blue-duncan; Forest Keeper; the_conscience
Every one knows they are sinners whether they are saved or not.

I don't think so. Obviously you haven't read all the posts on this thread. I think there are posters who would not recognize the idea that they are sinners. I suspect most of the world thinks that their own good works outweigh any bad deeds they have done, if they are even willing to admit to themselves that they have actually done any bad deeds.

Choosing to repent may be as pleasing as eating ipecac but people do eat ipecac when they know they need it.

Indeed, but only when they recognize the gravity of their situation. By then the Holy Spirit has already done His work and their hearts have been changed. Tell me, can a man bring his own dead heart to life by the power of his will? Or does God need to change their hearts and interfere with their free will in order to bring them to this point where they will eat the ipecac coated strawberries?

The difference between us is I believe God gave us free will, you don't seem to think so.

No he did give you a free will, but until God interferes with that will to mold it into a heart which will turn to him, that free will is a slave to the sinful nature. I am actually rather amazed at the number of Arminians who view the idea of a "free will" as some kind of blessing, when in fact it is actually a curse.

Do you really want to have a "free will" or do you want to have your will molded to that of Christ so that God's will becomes your will? If you want your will to be free rather than a slave to Christ, then are you really in God's will? Can you really call yourself saved if you prefer your own free will to the will of Christ?

Lord, take this cursed free will from me! Mold my will to Yours. Enslave my will to Your will, Oh Lord and let the old things pass away so that all things become new!

Can you say that prayer?

1,032 posted on 03/12/2010 5:52:49 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe
"Every one knows they are sinners whether they are saved or not."

I don't think so. Obviously you haven't read all the posts on this thread. I think there are posters who would not recognize the idea that they are sinners. I suspect most of the world thinks that their own good works outweigh any bad deeds they have done, if they are even willing to admit to themselves that they have actually done any bad deeds.

Why do you think people rationalize their sin by comparing themselves to others or saying they do more good than bad? Its because they recognize that they are sinners so they try to make excuses so they don't have to change. If people weren't aware of sin, they wouldn't even think about good works vs bad.

Lord, take this cursed free will from me! Mold my will to Yours. Enslave my will to Your will, Oh Lord and let the old things pass away so that all things become new!

Can you say that prayer?

I have prayed that prayer but to be honest, it scares me because I know that God will answer it. I may be a bit immature in my faith. This discussion is a bit tedious though. I think we agree about quite a bit but I am not going to become a Calvinist and I don't think I will change your mind. In the end, it doesn't matter that much. We both believe that we are saved through faith because Jesus loved us enough to pay the penalty for our sins.

1,079 posted on 03/12/2010 9:38:42 PM PST by Tramonto (Live Free or Die)
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