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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Did Ignasius write that or not?

Of course he wrote it.

Would you like me to explain what it means?

It means that in matters of faith, we are entirely fallible and fallen sinners. Fallible to the extent that we ought not to trust even our own eyes. The Church, on the other hand, being the Bride of Christ, is infallible and can be trusted in all matters of faith. It was given to us by Jesus himself to guide us on the path to salvation.

It's called obedience, which is a virtue.

To that, compare the pride-engendered Protestant position, which says that moi....is the one who gets to make the final call. Obedience is not for me. If I say it's white, then that's all that matters.

That's called rebellion.

It is demonic.

21 posted on 02/26/2010 8:30:35 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow; johngrace
Anyone can read the words and understand exactly what they mean.

IGNASIUS LOYOLA: ""To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it"

He is telling Roman Catholics to ignore what their own lying eyes reveal to them; what their own conscience tells them; what the Scriptures teach them; and simply go along with the papacy's deflection of the truth.

That's exactly what the words are saying. There's nothing new in telling lies for expediency's sake, for power and control. Scripture tells us what happens to that kind of intentional misdirection -- "woe unto them..."

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" -- Isaiah 5:20

22 posted on 02/26/2010 8:49:55 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: marshmallow
To that, compare the pride-engendered Protestant position, which says that moi....is the one who gets to make the final call. Obedience is not for me. If I say it's white, then that's all that matters.

"Moi" is not the "final call."

Scripture is the final call, the measure of all truth and life and spirit, our only rule of faith and practice.

The Roman Catholic church could have this type of clarity, too, if they would simply stop saying "black is white" and learn from God's word which does not lie for any reason.

"For the word of the Lord is right; and all his works are done in truth." -- Psalm 33:4

23 posted on 02/26/2010 8:57:49 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: marshmallow

PETRUCHIO

Come on, i’ God’s name; once more toward our father’s.
Good Lord, how bright and goodly shines the moon!

KATHARINA

The moon! the sun: it is not moonlight now.

PETRUCHIO

I say it is the moon that shines so bright.

KATHARINA

I know it is the sun that shines so bright.

PETRUCHIO

Now, by my mother’s son, and that’s myself,
It shall be moon, or star, or what I list,
Or ere I journey to your father’s house.
Go on, and fetch our horses back again.
Evermore cross’d and cross’d; nothing but cross’d!

HORTENSIO

Say as he says, or we shall never go.

KATHARINA

Forward, I pray, since we have come so far,
And be it moon, or sun, or what you please:
An if you please to call it a rush-candle,
Henceforth I vow it shall be so for me.

PETRUCHIO

I say it is the moon.

KATHARINA

I know it is the moon.

PETRUCHIO

Nay, then you lie: it is the blessed sun.

KATHARINA

Then, God be bless’d, it is the blessed sun:
But sun it is not, when you say it is not;
And the moon changes even as your mind.
What you will have it named, even that it is;
And so it shall be so for Katharina.


99 posted on 02/28/2010 12:04:39 AM PST by firebrand
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