WHO REALLY IS 'ANTI-CATHOLIC?'

Alpha and Omega Ministries ^ | 1-23-10 | James Swan

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Back in one my old philosophy classes I recall lengthy discussions as to the relationship between names and reality, and then spinning around for hours contemplating the brain teaser of what it means to "mean" something about anything. The aftermath: an entire class of young minds slipped further into skepticism, as if the reality each twenty something experienced was completely unknowable. Of course, arriving at the conclusion that ultimate reality is unknowable is... to know something about ultimate reality! Ah, the futility of the sinful mind in its continual construction of Babel towers. Without the presupposition "He is there and He is not silent" the sinful mind does what it does best: it creates a worldview that can't account for the reality it truly experiences.

Despite the aspirin needed after attending such classes, it did force me early on to think about ostensive definitions, and the carefulness with which one defines terms. With theology, correctly using terms takes on the greatest moral imperative: one is speaking about the very holy God that created the universe. Think of terms that are used to describe Biblical doctrine, like "Trinity." One is using a term to describe a collection of factual data given by the Holy Spirit. If ever one should use caution, it should be with the construction of theological terms.

Consider the designator "Catholic Church." The Westminster Confession of Faith explains, "The catholic or universal Church, which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the Head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all." The Belgic Confession states that one of its primary distinguishing marks is the "pure preaching of the gospel." If one were pressed to point to that vital factor placing one in the Catholic Church, it is the work of Christ and His Gospel. It is the Gospel which unites the members of the Catholic Church. It is the work of Christ, grasped onto by faith that links those in the Catholic Church together. This pure Gospel is of such importance, that the apostle Paul states if anyone (including himself) preaches another Gospel, he should be eternally condemned.

But what about throwing the word "Roman" into the the mix? The addition of one simple word adds in an ingredient that changes the taste, so to speak. In this short mp3 clip, Tim Staples touched on what "Roman Catholic Church" means. He says "Roman Catholic" has popularly and un-technically come to be synonymous with the term "Catholic". He states "Roman Catholic" popularly means "you're in union with the bishop of Rome." Recent mega-convert Francis Beckwith concurs:

One of my pet peeves is the intentional overuse of "Rome," "Roman," "Romanist," etc. by Protestant critics of Catholic theology. Here's why: the Catholic Church is a collection of many churches in communion with the Bishop of Rome. It's catechism--The Catechism of the Catholic Church--is that of all these churches that are in communion with one another and with the Supreme Pontiff, Pope Benedict XVI. The theology found in that text, therefore, is not Roman Catholic theology. It is Catholic theology. That's the way the Church understands itself. Common courtesy suggests that those who are critical of that theology summon the respect to refer to it as such"[source].

I admit that I've often equated the two terms. I've used the term "Catholic" to describe Roman Catholics. It has taken a conscious effort on my part to keep the terms distinguished. On the other hand, I'm not sure how it's possible to "overuse" the word "Roman" when referring to those who actively and overtly pledge obedience to bishop of Rome. Beckwith is basically saying "Catholic" is the property of the papacy, and they will define the parameters of the word.

Whose theological usage reflects the teaching of sacred Scripture? Is union with the bishop of Rome an element of theological data mined from the Scriptures? Hardly. It's an extra-Biblical presupposition hoisted upon the text. One has to first assume the validity of the papacy and then read it back into the sacred text. The popular definition as described by Mr. Staples and Dr. Beckwith is entirely unbiblical.

There's one other theological term being thrown around with this: anti-Catholic. Recently Roman Catholic apologist Dave Armstrong stated he "temporarily suspended [his] ongoing policy of not interacting with anti-Catholic arguments and polemics." Well, after I ceased shaking in fear over this announcement, I scrolled through Armstrong's multiple diatribes to see his precise meaning of the term "anti-Catholic." His exact formula appears to boil down to: "One who denies that the Catholic Church and its theology is properly classifiable as Christian" [source].

By applying Armstrong's standard, an Anti-Mormon would be one who denies that the Mormon church and its theology is properly classifiable as Christian. Dave would probably say it's a good thing to be anti-Mormon. So, simply using the term "anti" as Armstrong suggests is either good or bad depending on one's presuppositions. According to Dave's definition, I would say it's a good thing to be anti-Catholic in the same way Dave would probably hold it's a good thing to be anti-Mormon.

Armstong's seemingly endless qualifications and examination of the term "anti-Catholic," as well as "his own definition" provoked me to apply what has been discussed above, and consider an alternate theological definition. If "Catholic" is connected symbiotically with the Gospel, wouldn't an anti-Catholic be someone who either denies the Gospel or denies it as that which unites the people of God into the universal Church? If a particular church overtly espouses a different Gospel, according to Paul, let him be anathema. If understood this way, it would be Roman Catholics who are anti-Catholics. Their Council of Trent explicitly rejected the Gospel in an official declaration.

How does one precisely refer to those in communion with Rome and obedient to the Bishop of Rome? Contrary to Beckwith, I've seriously considered using the word "Romanist." The term describes those devoted to the papacy quite succinctly. However, I was informed by another zealous defender of the papacy that "...many non-Catholic apologists are truly bigots at heart and they use 'Roman' as a derogatory insult. Their bigotry becomes even more clear when they use Romish or Romanist." No one wants to be thought of as a bigot. However, in the same Catholic Answers broadcast cited above, Tim Staples and his co-host positively referred to themselves as "Romanists" introducing their "open forum for non-Catholics" show, in which they only take calls from those outside of their worldview. Here is the mp3 clip. Perhaps they were kidding, although it's hard to tell.

I'm tempted to simply start using the term anti-Catholic for the reasons outlined. I can think of no better theological phrase to describe those who inject obedience to the papacy into the term "Catholic Church."

[the_conscience]

Is the RM a priest?

[wagglebee]

The Awards are in the name of the poppa John by a group claiming to represent the RCC.

No, the award is named after an encyclical written by Pope John XXIII. The group that awards the prize in no way claims to represent the Catholic Church no more than it claims to represent the Baptists, Calvinists or other groups involved in giving the award.

The trinity is not supported by the Holy Word of G-d.

Yes, we are well aware that you belong to a 19th century group which denies the Holy Trinity (and with it the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ). You also deny Christmas and Easter.

What I don't understand is why you contain your opposition to a fundamental Christian belief to Catholic threads.

Nevertheless, I thank you for it. The fact that the anti-Catholic bigots will overlook your views, views they consider heretical, is quite illuminating.

jesuitical parsing and spinning REBUKE OR EXCOMMUNICATE OPENLY PUBLIC SINNERS like kennedy, pelosi, biden........day, berrigan, wallis, tutu, prejean....

As this award is not given by the Church, your claim is absurd. And for the record, many of the recipients aren't even Catholic.

[trisham]

Interesting site with regard to the subject of this thread:

“What is anti-Catholicism?

This page is devoted to identifying anti-Catholicism on the Web. Anti-Catholicism (like anti-Semitism in some ways) is not easy to define. I am often tempted to apply the “definition” of pornography advanced by Justice Stewart of the United States Supreme Court: “I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it.”

My definition is drawn from the history of anti-Catholicism in America: I believe that modern anti-Catholicism continues (with some interesting variations) the religious themes of the Protestant Reformation and the secular (anti-clerical) themes of the Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment periods. In the United States these two strands became intertwined in nineteenth century Nativism, and they have continued (though attenuated) up to the present. Their presence on the Web simply reflects the fact that all kinds of ideas (mainstream and marginal) are now disseminated in this way.

Anti-Catholic themes may be loosely categorized as follows:

attacking Catholicism as being un-Christian or a cult (in the pejorative and not the sociological sense);

ridiculing or misinterpreting Catholic doctrine or practice;

ascribing to the Catholic Church a sinister role in an anti-Christian or anti-American conspiracy;

distorting or taking out of context illegal or scandalous behavior (especially sexual misconduct) by Catholic clergy or laity.

I label a web-site as anti-Catholic if it falls into one or more of the above categories. Obviously, there are some gray areas: How to distinguish between anti-Catholicism and legitimate differences with the Catholic Church? Further, given the ever widening sexual scandal which has engulfed the Catholic Church in the past few years, a great deal of material has appeared on the Net which is highly critical of the Catholic Church but which cannot be considered anti-Catholic. How to decide when a site crosses the line? These are difficult questions and I have indicated any site about which I have doubts. I am always willing to discuss this question with anyone who disagrees with me. Surprisingly, only one person has ever challenged my description of his site as anti-Catholic; even more surprisingly, a number of webmasters have written and asked that their sites be linked. (One correspondant asked if his site was not “anti-Catholic enough” to be included.)..”

More here:

http://www2.trincoll.edu/~dcruzuri/anti-catholic/anti-catholic.html

[Dr. Eckleburg]

it helps to have good teachers.

Amen. Teaching elders are given their gift of instruction by God. Pastors like Calvin, Luther, Spurgeon, Whitefield, Van Til, Warfield, Bahnsen, Hodge, Owen, Edwards, all were graced with the ability to understand Scripture and preach the Gospel effectively.

But the true teacher of the word of God is not a man, but the Holy Spirit.

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." -- 1 Corinthians 2:12-13

And thus the excellent teacher, John Calvin, can confidently state:

"Scripture is the school of the Holy Spirit, in which, as nothing is omitted that is both necessary and useful to know, so nothing is taught but what is expedient to know.” -– John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion

I agree that allowing the Scriptures to illuminate themselves is possible on most issues, but certainly it helps to look outside the Scriptures to get clarification on contested issues

This is where the Protestant parts way with the Roman Catholic. When confronted by a "contested issue" we are to "search the Scriptures," as the Bereans did, to see if this be so.

"But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." -- 2 Timothy 3:14-17

A good example of a useful teaching aid is the WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH

Of the 33 chapters in the WCF, the very first one is "Of the Holy Scriptures"...

"IV. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.[9]

(9) "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." -- 2 Peter 1:19-21

Which means the Scriptures came about not through the will of men, but through the will of God as they were instructed by the Holy Spirit.

The episcopacy existed and was authoritative while the apostles were living, and it appears the church had no problem with that for the first 16 centuries of its existence.

There is no evidence in Scripture that the office and purpose of the apostles were carried on beyond the apostles. The preaching of the Gospel fell to disciples, of which you and I are numbered. The true church of Jesus Christ exists, but it is not confided to Rome. It is made up of all those given true faith in Jesus Christ as Lord, King and Savior, by the grace of God alone.

The millennium of the "Dark Ages" wasn't called that for nothing. They were "dark" because the bishop of Rome was usurping the power and position of the Holy Spirit. An error that continues to this day.

[Quix]

one quibble,

I don’t believe the Vatican decided the Canon. I don’t believe the Vatican control of Christendom was that accomplished at that point.

Yeah, I love agreeing with other Christians when at all possible.

Cheers.

Carry on y’all.

The Rabid Clique certainly will wail on and on.

Our perspective deserves SOME forceful presentation!

Heading off to breakfast. Joya is treating me to a birthday breakfast.

[Quix]

Slight correction . . .

MORE of a Papist tea party.

[wagglebee]

INDEED TO THE MAX.

So, you are AGREEING with UriÂ’el-2012's contention that the Holy Trinity isn't supported by Scripture? How telling.

[Uri’el-2012]

The Pacem in Terris Peace and Freedom Award has been awarded annually since 1964 in commemoration of the 1963 Encyclical "Pacem in Terris" of Pope John XXIII. It was created by the Davenport Catholic Interracial Council of the Diocese of Davenport in the U.S. state of Iowa. Since 1976 the award has been presented by the Quad Cities Pacem in Terris Coalition. In 2005 the coalition consisted of the Diocese of Davenport, St. Ambrose University, Augustana College, Churches United of the Quad-Cities, and the Congregation of the Humility of Mary.

[wagglebee]

BEARING BRAZENLY FALSE WITNESS IS NOT ADMIRABLE.

Do you know what false witness even means?

How can anyone bear false witness against an unspecified group.

Salvation wrote, "Several posters have been banned from FR for their posting of anti-Catholic threads."

Are you denying that this is true? Would you like names?

[wmfights]

FWIW, don’t let the static make you do something you regret. Some will defend their church no matter what it does.

[xone]

I don’t believe the Vatican decided the Canon

Nor do I, that was the work of the Holy Spirit. Happy birthday!

[the_conscience]

“screaming for yet another INQUISITION RIGHT HERE ON FR.”

It’s in their blood. They can’t help it. It should keep us wary on the political front.

[xone]

How to distinguish between anti-Catholicism and legitimate differences with the Catholic Church?

The issue.

[RnMomof7]

Jesus was a Catholic

Here I thought He was God:)

[Uri’el-2012]

U-2012>The trinity is not supported by the Holy Word of G-d.

Yes, we are well aware that you belong to a 19th century group which denies the Holy Trinity (and with it the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ). You also deny Christmas and Easter.

You seem confused,
I belong to a group started in the first century by our messiah, Yah'shua.

YHvH coming the form a man to fulfill His commandments
and to die for our sins as the Lamb of G-d.

There is only ONE YHvH; Yah'shua told me so.

Yah'shua told that he and the Father are ONE.

Yah'shua told me if you have seen me you have seen the father.

Christmas, Easter and Sunday worship were started in the fourth century
by the Pagans at Nicea lead by the Roman Emperor.

There is no scriptural support for christmas, easter nor Sunday worship.

Read and follow the Holy Word of G-d; do not follow false shepherds.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[RnMomof7]

Is the RM a priest?

When the other thread was closed and "The Barren Harvest of Protestantism" was left open I have wondered the same thing.. there is a very noticeable pro Catholic bias here..but thats ok , we have the scripture on our side :)

[wagglebee]

Since 1976 the award has been presented by the Quad Cities Pacem in Terris Coalition. In 2005 the coalition consisted of the Diocese of Davenport, St. Ambrose University, Augustana College, Churches United of the Quad-Cities, and the Congregation of the Humility of Mary.

Yep, I read the same thing.

Let's look at the membership of Churches United of the Quad-Cities:

Bettendorf, Iowa
•Asbury Methodist Church
•Beffendorf Presbyterian
•Church of Jesus Christ of LDS
•Community of Joy United Methodist
•Harmony Hills Baptist (ABC)
•Our Lady of Lourdes
•Redeemer Lutheran Church
•St. James Lutheran Church
•St. John Vianney Catholic Church
•St. Peter's Episcopal Church <9> Davenport, Iowa
•All Saints Lutheran Church
•Bethel AME Church
•Cedar Memorial Christian
•Christ United Methodist Church
•Christ's Family Church
•Church of Jesus Christ of LDS
•Community of Christ
•Davenport Friends Church
•Edwards Congregational United Church of Christ
•Faith United Church of Christ
•Faith United Methodist Church
•First Baptist Church (ABC)
•First Christian Church (Disciples)
•First Church of Christ, Scientist
•First Presbyterian Church
•Full Gospel Outreach Ministry
•Gospel Mission Temple
•Grace Lutheran Church
•Grace United Methodist
•Higher Heights Missionary Baptist
•Metropolitan Community Church of the Quad Cities
•Mt. Olive Church of God in Christ
•New Hope Presbyterian Church
•New Life Church of God in Christ
•Newcomb Presbyterian Church
•Our Lady of Victory
•Progressive Baptist Church (NBC)
•Sacred Heart Cathedral
•Salvation Army
•Seventh Day Adventist Church
•St. Alban's Episcopal
•St. Anthony's Catholic Chrch
•St. John's United Methodist
•St. Mark Evangelical Lutheran
•St. Mary Catholic Church
•St. Matthew Lutheran Church
•St. Paul Lutheran Church
•St. Paul the Apostle Catholic Church
•Temple Baptist Church (NBC)
•Third Missionary Baptist (NBC)
•Trinity Episcopal Cathedal
•Zion Lutheran Church

Moline, Illinois
•Bethel Wesley United Methodist
•Calvary Lutheran Church
•Christ Anglican Church
•Christ the King Catholic Church
•Community of Christ
•Elim Covenant Church
•Faith Lutheran Church ELCA
•First Baptist Church (ABC)
•First Christian Church (DOC)
•First Church of Christ, Scientist
•First Congregational Church UCC
•First Covenant Church
•First Lutheran Church
•First United Presbyterian Church
•Hope United Church of Christ
•Memorial Christian Church
•Riverside United Methodist
•Sacred Heart Catholic Church
•Salem Lutheran Church
•St Mary's Catholic Church
•Tabernacle Baptist Church (NBC)
•Trinity Evangelical Lutheran Church ELCA
•Union Congregarional UCC

Rock Island, Illinois
•Broadway Presbyterian Church
•Church of Jesus Christ of LDS
•Churh of Peace UCC
•Fifteenth Avenue Christian
•First Baptist Church (ABC)
•First Lutheran Church
•First Paradise Baptist Church
•Gloria Dei Presbyterian
•Good Shepherd Presbyterian
•Greater Antioch Baptist Church
•Hispanic United Methodist Church
•Olivet Baptist Church (NBC)
•Sacred Heart Catholic Church
•Second Baptist Church (NBC)
•Solid Rock Spiritual Church
•South Park Presbyterian
•St. George Greek Orthodox
•St. James Lutheran Church
•St. John's Lutheran Church
•St. Pius X Catholic Church
•Trinity Anglican Church
•Two Rivers United Methodist Church

East Moline, Illinois
•Assumption Greek Orthodox
•Christ United Methodist Church
•First Christian Church (DOC)
•First Presbyterian Church
•Grace United Methodist Church
•Immanuel Lutheran Church (ELCA Synod)
•Mt. Zion Missionary Baptist (NBC)

Carbon Cliff, Illinois
•Carbon Cliff United Methodist

Coal Valley, Illinois
•First Presbyterian Church
•St. Maria Goretti Church

Cordova, Illinois
•First Baptist Church (ABC)

Edgington, Illinois
•Edgington Presbyterian Church

Hampton, Illinois
•Hampton United Methodist

Hillsdale, Illinois
•Hillsdale Community United Methodist Church

Milan, Illinois
•First Presbyterian Church
•Trinity United Methodist Church
•Two Rivers United Methodist

Orion, Illinois
•Beulah Presbyterian Church
•Orion United Methodist Church

Port Byron, Illinois
•Church of the Cross United Methodist
•Fairfield United Methodist
•Messiah Lutheran Church

Silvis, Illinois
•Silvis United Methodist Church

Blue Grass, Iowa
•Blue Grass Presbyterian
•St. Andrews Catholic Church

Buffalo, Iowa
•Calvary Lutheran Church
•St. Peter's Catholic Church

Eldridge, Iowa
•Eldridge United Methodist Church
•Faith Lutheran Church (ELCA)

LeClaire, Iowa
•First Presbyterian Church
•Our Lady of the River Catholic
•Our Savior Presbyterian

Long Grove, Iowa
•St. Ann's Church

McCausland, Iowa
•McCausland UMC

Walcott, Iowa
•Calvary United Methodist Church

Please ping me when you decide to attack the Calvinists and Baptists for their participation.

[wagglebee]

Christmas, Easter and Sunday worship were started in the fourth century by the Pagans at Nicea lead by the Roman Emperor.

There is no scriptural support for christmas, easter nor Sunday worship.

As I said before, when you start attacking non-Catholic Christians, feel free to ping me.

[xone]

"The Barren Harvest of Protestantism"

I was pleased to see that remain open. Apologetics at its finest, using zottable references.