Posted on 02/24/2010 9:36:26 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg
One thing I think you meant to say when you said that Jesus is in Heaven with his creator God, you of course mean that this will be until Jesus’ second coming on earth, right?
Actually, your statement need any deciphering:
"Jesus is still separate from God."
You give me two options to believe in...And I of course reject both of those...
Then what DO you believe? Explain how you can reconcile the above statement with a belief that does not either deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ or embrace polytheism. Statements that we don't understand or ramblings about the Catholic Church are nothing more than evasion because you are making statements that Lutherans, Calvinists, Methodists and Baptists ALL denounce as heresy.
I would state without exception, those who take upon them the name of Christ, their enemies are those who are the enemies of Christ and as Saul of Tarsus/later the Apostle Paul, said he was "chief."
No. God has revealed Himself in three persons, one God still.
Nobody can learn who God is, without humbling their thinking before Him. The only way to learn truthfully about God, is not by thinking independently from Him, but by understanding through faith in Him by what He reveals in His Word.
The Mystery doctrine of the Church Age relates to the action of God the Holy Spirit, not previously known to mankind before Pentecost after the Ascension, except for the announcements and requests of its coming by Christ and the angels after the Last Supper.
Our Lord Christ Jesus came to us as a man, with a body, and a soul, and a human spirit. We can identify with the doctrines of kenosis and hypostatic union to understand how we are to take on the mind of Christ, by remaining in fellowship with God the Holy Spirit in all things before us individually and collectively.
We also can recognize that in God's Plan, set by the Father, the Son performed the role God had planned for him, but his role is not identical with each of ours. Each of us have different functions and roles planned for us, but through faith in Him, and remaining in fellowship with Him, no matter what circumstances are placed before us, we are able to be in the right place, at the right time, to perform or not perform anything, while remaining in fellowship with Him, through faith in Christ, exercising another good work by divine standards which He is authorized to judge and grant us rewards at the bema seat.
Iscool: “And I of course reject both of those... “ Of course, you said “Jesus Christ is separate from God” i.e. that Jesus Christ is not God. you would reject the second option of course in sola scriptura.
John 10:30 and Matthew 28:19 make it all very clear.
Now, from an earlier statement of yours: Disagreements are not hatred. Repeated false statements in the same thread about what others believe, IS.
I submit that despite what 'my interpretation' is, you insist on using yours. Is this an example of 'hatred'? I don't think so. But in a contentious argument, this type of thing happens.
As to early reformers not being in agreement: the best construction is that the others were wrong and Luther right of course. Those of the Reformed that we can't doctrinally agree with we don't have altar fellowship with. But we don't hate on them, we deny their error and work to resolve the differences.
What I meant to say was that if one truly believes that it should be by scripture alone, then one will: 1. Reject any word, any phrase, any tradition, any whisper that is not in the Bible (like the words "Trinity" or "bible") and 2. Accept that their own interpretation is the right one.
Confessional Lutherans are Sola Scriptura, they accept the words Trinity/Bible and don't reject the concept. As to #2 don't all Christians accept an interpretation whether their own or their denominational one?
This is what Uri or roamer says -- he interprets the examples we Trinitarians give as being "false" interpretations.
I can accept their interpretations, I accept them as incorrect, but accept them. It doesn't shake my faith and as pointed out, we WILL know finally. Although I disagree with roamer on the concept of red-facedness. We'll all have bigger fish to fry.
I think I am going to have to jump on the bandwagon of those who think that statement is at odds with the Christian understanding of the Trinity. Maybe you should explain what you mean, because on the surface that is the kind of statement I would expect from a Jehovah's witness or maybe a Mormon.
One thing I think you meant to say when you said that Jesus is in Heaven with his creator God, you of course mean that this will be until Jesus’ second coming on earth, right?
Err, IIRC, Jesus was “begotten, not made”.
I believe Scripture is silent for a reason on Marian aspects outside of the facts leading up to the Virgin birth of our Lord. And that is that Scripture isn't about Mary, it is about Christ, all of it.
The 'how' of the Trinity is beyond human reason. I am compelled to suppress my reason when faced with the majesty and power of God. As a created finite being, I must leave God's things to Him. I have in my life done a micro-Job without Job's righteous behavior. You can resist the Holy Spirit, you just can't win. You WILL end up doing it God's way. It is all a matter of how much you want it to hurt until you do, how much of your life do you want to live contrary to the blessings His way offers.
Is the Trinity beyond human reason, or might it be revealed to the human spirit by God the Holy Spirit, and then made known to our mind from the spirit and then when comprehended in categories of other Bible doctrine made available to the human reason in our hearts, but all through faith in Christ?
IMHO, the doctrine is even more rich, in that without remaining in fellowship with God the Holy Spirit, and attempting to reason in our hearts, without adequate regeneration and sanctification from Bible doctrine in our thinking, the doctrine of the Trinity is always muddled and confused.
Through faith in Him, it is much simpler than many suspect.
I only see Trinitarians referenced in this message. Here is a better explanation:
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