Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list
Posted on 02/02/2010 6:44:25 AM PST by marshmallow
I admire many of the beliefs of SSPX. But at the same time, I recognize that what they did was schismatic. Whatever their protestations, the fact remains that the only real difference between Lefebvre and Luther were their lists of grievances.
He can't. There were somewhere between 35 million and 50 million civilian deaths in all of World War 2. The bulk of them were in China and the USSR, neither of which I'd categorize as majority Catholic countries. Of the Catholic countries conquered by the Nazis, France suffered about 250,000 civilian dead and Poland about 2.5 million.
But it is a truism that is almost axiomatic that almost everyone who DOES “question” the figure has a rather sinister motivation for doing so.
Mel Gibson defended his fathers Holocaust denial, and many hoped that there was not an accompanying antisemitism that went along with it; but like ducks and water - the two just seem to go together.
Also, one is most certainly allowed to CHALLENGE the figures with contrary historic evidence, it is just that the evidence of what the Nazis did, and what they INTENDED to do are an absolutely backed by ironclad historic evidence; while the “scholarship” of those who challenge the scale, intent of, and even the existence of the Holocaust tends towards outlandish conspiracy theories to accompany their brain dead racism.
The names and places of more than 3 million Jews killed are recorded. Many are unrecorded because whole towns and regions were made Judenrein. Those without surviving relatives and friends are more difficult to individually identify.
Jews were carefully segregated and counted, for tax purposes if nothing else. The numbers before and after are pretty solid.
What I find curious, and somewhat amusing - is the strange character of those who hate the Jewish people, like Hitler, and yet deny the Holocaust. What then do they admire Hitler FOR?
Same mindset as those who hate America, love Osama bin Lauden, but deny that Al Queda was responsible for 9-11. What then do they admire 0sama bin Lauden FOR?
Some people is just stupid.
What I find curious, and somewhat amusing - is the strange character of those who hate the Jewish people, like Hitler, and yet deny the Holocaust. What then do they admire Hitler FOR?
I think you are operating on a couple of bad assumptions here. One is that holocaust deniers "hate the Jewish people." Mabye they do, but there is no reason to assume so. People will say that person A is an antisemite because he denies the holocaust and then argue that those who deny the holocaust do so because of antisemitism. The first proves the second which proves the first again. This strikes me as something like petitio principii.
I have little doubt that a person could deny the holocaust in some way, either partially or completely, and yet have no formed opinion regarding the Jewish people. I also have no problem accepting that people can like Hitler without being antisemitic, just as people admire Mao or Stalin. People who are particularly drawn to ideas of nationalism or militaristic forms of totalitarianism could be supporters of Hitler or Nazism. In the end I believe this is just another case of circular reasoning.
Did you give Anita Dunn the same courtesy that when she praised Mao, you didn't assume she had a rather favorable view of Communism?
Those that deny the Holocaust have no real historic reasons for doing so, so I must assume they have personal reasons for so doing; and anecdotal evidence suggests they are brain dead racist losers.
That is true, and the respected British historian, Robert Conquest, has stated that the Holocaust numbers could easily be jumped up by another 1,000,000 Jewish murders in the western Soviet Union during WWII, but the vastly inferior bookkeeping of the Soviets makes counting much more difficult. The Soviets didn't keep good records of their own mass murdering in the Soviet Union, and certainly couldn't be expected to accurately report the German mass murdering while the Wehrmacht was in the U.S.S.R.
Did you give Anita Dunn the same courtesy that when she praised Mao, you didn't assume she had a rather favorable view of Communism?
Well, I don't think this is analogical. Her praise of Mao was as a political "philosopher" and his political philosophy was communism. Effectively she said what her view was in that regard as it was what she was talking about. The racial views of holocaust deniers, on the other hand, are being inferred based on assumptions of motive which are not themselves implicit or explicit in the their stated positions.
Those that deny the Holocaust have no real historic reasons for doing so, so I must assume they have personal reasons for so doing; and anecdotal evidence suggests they are brain dead racist losers.
Maybe they are, but maybe they aren't. Anecdotal evidence, in my experience, is an oxymoron and I can see no objective reason to assume that holocaust deniers are all acting out of racist motives. Particular goofy ideas don't necessarily equate to some equally particular agenda or motive. Many morons think that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job perpetrated by those in our own government. Does it prove they hate America? No, not really. It just proves that they are stupid and gullible. Conspiracy nuts are just that, nuts. I think many are paranoid and simply believe that there are secret machinations going on behind the scenes all the time. Others, I think, like to think they are privy to some secret occult knowledge that others are not aware of. It feeds their ego. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that Bp. Williamson is one of these.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.