Do Christians Need Only the Bible?

cna ^

[NYer]

I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you. 1 Corinthians 11:2

Most Protestant Christians believe that the Bible is the only source concerning faith. According to them, there is no need for Apostolic Tradition or an authoritative, teaching Church. All that they need is the Bible in order to learn about the faith and to live a Christian life. The "Bible Alone" teaching can be appealing in its simplicity, but it suffers from fundamental problems. A few are considered here.

First the Bible itself states that not everything important to the Christian faith is recorded in it. For example, not everything that Christ did is recorded in the inspired Books:

But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. [John 21:25; RSV]

According to John 20:31, some things have been recorded in the Gospel in order to come to know Christ; however, John 21:25 suggests that there is still more to know about Him. At least for St. John the Apostle, there was more that he needed to teach which was not recorded in the Bible:

I had much to write you, but I would rather not write with pen and ink; I hope to see you soon, and we will talk together face to face. [3 John 13-14]

Also St. Paul instructs Timothy on how to orally pass on the teachings of the faith:

...what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. [2 Tim. 2:2]

St. Paul even commands (2 Thess. 3:6) the Thessalonian Christians to follow the oral Traditions of the Apostles:

So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us (Apostles), either by word of mouth (oral) or by letter (Epistle). [2 Thess. 2:15]

These commands promoting Oral Tradition would be quite strange, if only the Bible were needed to pass on the entire Christian faith.

A second problem with the "Bible Alone" teaching is canonicity - i.e. which Books belong in the Bible? It must be remembered that the Books of the Bible were written individually along with other religious books. Centuries later the Church compiled together the inspired Books under one cover to form the "Bible." A big question in the early Church was which books are the inspired written Word of God. (Inspired=written by men but authored by God; See Catechism of the Catholic Church 106.)

Scripture did not come with an "inspired" Table of Contents. Nowhere in the sacred texts are all the Books listed. There are some Books cited in the sacred writings but these lists are vague and incomplete (Acts 28:23; 2 Peter 3:16). There are also references to books not found in the Bible, such as St. Paul's Epistle to the Laodiceans (Col. 4:16). St. Paul even encourages the Colossians to read this epistle, but still it is not in the Bible. Jesus in the Gospel never attempts to list the "official" Books of the Old Testament (OT). This issue was hotly debated in His day. Today Protestant and Catholic Christians disagree over which Books belong in the OT. Catholics follow the list in the Septuagint (2nd century B.C. Greek translation of the Hebrew Scripture) while Protestants follow the list used by the Pharisees. A list from Jesus could have eliminated this problem, but no such list is found in the Gospel. As a result the Bible needs a visible authority outside of itself to list the inspired sacred Books. This authority must be guided by the Holy Spirit since these Books are from the Holy Spirit.

Some Christians claim that the Table of Contents in their Bible lists the inspired Books. Even though found in modern Bibles, the Table of Contents is still not inspired. It is not the Word of God but words added later by human editors, much similar to footnotes. The Table of Contents is basically the opinion of the publishing editor. Others may claim that the closing verses in the Book of Revelation, specifically Rev. 22:18-19, cap off the Bible and define all the preceding Books as inspired by God. But do these verses apply to the whole Bible or only the Book of Revelation? Another flaw with this idea is that not all Bibles have the same number of Books. As alluded to above, Catholic and Protestant Bibles contain different numbers of OT Books, yet all these Bibles close with the same verses: Rev. 22:18ff. Both cannot be right. Finally the Book of Deuteronomy contains similar verses (4:2 & 12:32). Does this imply that the Books after Deuteronomy are not inspired by God? No.

A third problem with the "Bible Alone" teaching is proper understanding of critical Bible passages. Most Protestant Christians promote personal interpretation of the Bible, i.e. anyone can interpret these passages by himself. Unfortunately this leads to chaos. For example over Baptism, some Protestants accept the validity of infant Baptism, while others do not. Some believe in the necessity of Baptism for salvation, citing Mark 16:16, while others disagree by citing John 3:16. They all claim to be Bible-based, but still they disagree over fundamental issues regarding salvation. Sadly the "Yellow Pages" phone directory is a witness to the many "Bible-Based" churches who disagree with each other over key issues of the Christian faith. Personal interpretation of the Bible naturally leads to a mire of human doctrines as a result of differing personal opinions.

The Bible was not written as a catechism. It is a collection of many different styles of writing - poetry, history, parables, letters, songs, etc. - requiring different ways of understanding. Sometimes Jesus in the Gospel purposely taught in figurative language and parables, which makes literal interpretation impossible. Even St. Peter admits that St. Paul's Epistles can be difficult to understand:

...Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. [2 Peter 3:15-16]

Finally the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:30ff needed St. Philip to explain the Book of Isaiah. Obviously not everyone can understand the meaning of Scripture by simply reading it. More is required. These difficulties in the Bible demand an independent visible teaching authority that is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Even the Bible points to the importance of the Church for teaching the Truth. According to St. Peter in the Bible:

First of all you must understand this, that no prophesy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. [2 Peter 1:20-21]

At least prophecies in the Bible are not a matter of personal interpretation. These prophesies must be properly interpreted by "men moved by the Holy Spirit" since the Holy Spirit is the Author. These "men" are the Bishops of the Church - the successors to the Apostles (Acts 20:28-32). Finally the Bible does not call itself the bulwark of the truth; however, St. Paul does make reference to the Church in those terms:

...the household of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. [1 Tim. 3:15]

According to the Bible, the Church is "the pillar and bulwark of the truth."
All Christians, including Catholics, should read the Bible in order to grow more in the faith; however, we still need the Church. The Church is needed to accurately pass on Apostolic Tradition (Romans 10:17), define the canon of the Bible (i.e. list the inspired Books), safeguard the accurate transmission (e.g. translations) of the Bible and interpret key passages, all with guidance from the Holy Spirit according to God's Will. The Church is needed for other reasons too. It must be understood that the Church is not merely men making arbitrary decisions but men executing authority from God guided by the Holy Spirit. The Church may at times be tested by scandals or scarred by the sins of men. We may sometimes disagree with the policies of the Church, but she is still the instrument of the Holy Spirit. This visible Church is the one built by Jesus Christ on St. Peter, the rock (Matt. 16:18-19; John 1:24). This is the Catholic Church.

[betty boop]

LOL!!! There's absolutely nothing wrong with "the rational craziness of bro' Quix!!!!" JMHO

Thanks for your kind words, mitch5501.

[Quix]

Thanks for your sweet and encouraging words! LOL.

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.

[Quix]

LOL.

Never quite thought of it THAT way . . .

trying hard not to let my vivid imagination get toooo far down the road with THAT image.

[Alamo-Girl]

Then what is God?

Your question should be “Who are you?” and it should be directed to Him, as best you can.

And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. – Mark 9:24

But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. - Hebrews 11:6

You continued this theme:

But only those God gives the ears and the eyes will be saved, by God's choice. Maybe he didn't make neough... …

But you can't believe unless it is has been "given."

Cain resented Abel. The people in Noah’s day probably resented him and his family when the floods came. Likewise, those outside of Abraham’s family probably resented him. Korah obviously resented Moses. And certainly, the ones who were not in Israel’s family resented them and still do, irrationally so. (Have you ever spoken with a very kind Palestinian only to mention the Jews and hear him go postal?)

So it is not surprising that those who are not Christian resent Christians. Indeed, provoking Israel to jealousy is prophesied in the Song of Moses.

They have moved me to jealousy with [that which is] not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with [those which are] not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. – Deuteronomy 32:21

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. – Romans 11:11

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. – Revelation 1:7

Taking Scripture altogether, that God’s blessings and judgments run along family lines should not be missed. It is as if the children of a faithful believer start with an inclination to God, and He encourages them to become members of His spiritual family.

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. – Joshua 24:15

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;) That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. – Ephesians 6:1-4

I discern this in Luke 15, especially the parable of the Prodigal Son. Both sons had an inheritance, but the prodigal son squandered his inheritance in a strange land and was brought into despair so much so that he returned to his father who welcomed him with open arms and the fatted calf. He will never get his inheritance back, but he is well tended and can build treasures of his own.

What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found [it], he layeth [it] on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together [his] friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.– Luke 15:4-7

And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. – Luke 15:31-32

Indeed, I believe if one such as the prodigal son needs to be brought into despair to be saved, God will see it done. If the prodigal son had success in the strange land, it is doubtful he would have returned home.

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. – Hebrews 12:5-7

A review of the history of Israel, and the individual stories of David, etc. - shows this as well – tough love when we need it, gentle love when we need it.

Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, [so] the LORD thy God chasteneth thee. – Deuteronomy 8:5

God is truly good, not just “feel good.” He truly is our Father Who art in heaven.

God’s Name is I AM and Father!

[Alamo-Girl]

I very strongly agree, dear brother in Christ! Thank you so very much for your testimony and insights!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for those beautiful Scriptures, dear brother in Christ!

[kosta50]

NOT an error OF the numbers

Ever heard of a faulty design?

Numbers by themselves mean nothing unless they correspond to reality, just as letters by themselves mean nothing. 

Theories are verified against reality, not the other way around.

The error with the the HST wasn't a faulty design on paper but a faulty "yardstick," so to say, used for verification. The numbers looked right, but what was measured as a "yard" wasn't really a "yard" but slightly less. 

In other cases the numbers are out together incorrectly and the resulting figures are flawed. In either case, the problem is trusting the numbers and confusing them with reality. The only tru test for a given working model is qualitative and not quantitative.

Trouble is: the engineers believed that because the numbers looked right they had to be right. The HST was never tested against an actual star image (such a test was deemed prohibitively costly for an already budget-busting project). The numbers were deemed "right" and believed true and the star test was deemed unnecessary.

Which brings me back to my earlier argument that just because you  believe (in) something doesn't mean it's true. Faith is no guarantee. Faith is not a verification of reality. At best it is hope, or no more than a guess.

Later.

[Quix]

INDEED.

VERY CLEAR PATTERNS IN SCRIPTURE . . . observed also in life.

Thx.

[Quix]

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.

Thanks for your kind reply.

[Quix]

Right.

Which . . . affirms . . . imho . . . what some of us have been saying . . .

even the ostensibly most rigorous

‘objectivist’

treatment of ‘reality’

is going to be chronically flawed, more or less regardless.

[kosta50]

Right. Which . . . affirms . . . imho . . . what some of us have been saying . . .even the ostensibly most rigorous ‘objectivist’ treatment of ‘reality’ is going to be chronically flawed, more or less regardless.

But it wasn't rigorous objective treatment of reality; rather it was their subjective belief that that was flawed. They lived ina dleusion until the telescope was tested against relaity and not against numbers.

Objective treatment of reality is when you place your hand on a hot stove top and never do it again. It never fails. It doesn't require faith or spirit. It doesn't require prayer in order to work. It works every time. On demand. It does not discriminate between 'spiritual' and 'natural.'

Contrary to what some have been saying, the Bible also has "stove top" proofs. One of them is that if you have faith you can even walk on water. Do you walk on water so that know you have faith or do you just believe you do?  

[betty boop]

Indeed, I believe if one such as the prodigal son needs to be brought into despair to be saved, God will see it done.

Amen, dearest sister in Christ. In our Lord's divine economy, where there is despair, there is also hope. The soul must decide where its best interest lies, and choose accordingly.... The rest shall be done, according to His Word.

Thank you ever so much for your beautiful essay/post!

With you, I declare and testify: God’s Name is I AM and Father!

[betty boop]

Objective treatment of reality is when you place your hand on a hot stove top and never do it again. It never fails. It doesn't require faith or spirit. It doesn't require prayer in order to work. It works every time.

So what does laying one's hand on a hot stove teach us about eternal life?

[Quix]

I don’t know anyone who has

GREAT FAITH FOR ALL MATTERS, FACETS, FACTORS, ISSUES, CONTINGENCIES, OPTIONS

IN ALL SITUATIONS

Except Jesus, His Spirit, The Father.

Do you?

God has blessed me with sufficient faith for many situations.

And, HE IS the finisher and perfector of my faith and of me.

[stfassisi]

the Bible also has "stove top" proofs.

Reminds me of the most absurd things I have ever seen when watching a show on cable(think it was discovery channel) and a minister was trying to drive a demon out of someone by placing a Bible on his head.

[kosta50]

Sorry dear kosta, the Scripture coincides with the actual life a believer has.

LOL! Of course it is, because the life of a believer is patterned after them.

One can deny it, but when one has it and rejoices in remaining in fellowship with God, so He continues His work, it is intuitively obvious despite any declaration by any other man

I am not denying anyone's experience. I am saying that people rejoice in any belief. It doesn't mean the belief is true.

Attempts to reason it away are simply attempts to distract with counterfeit reasoning

Why is rejecting something that does not conform to the real world "counterfeit?" 

Reasoning with my heart...

The heart has no reason, or emotion. The heart is a mechanical pump driven by electrical and chemical actuators.  Ancients believed the heart to be the center of human emotions (I guess because it  starts to beat stronger when someone gets emotional). This is no different than the ancients' belief that diseases are caused by "spirits," whether they be demons or God.

Again, Jesus never taught pneumatikos. It was unknown to his disicples because it is a Pauline innovation that got incorporated into the fabric of the new religion he created.

Luke Timothy and Peter also speak of GNOSIS as well as EPIGNOSIS

Jews believed in magic, angels and spirits. What else is new?

Mark definitely speaks to the perception Jesus Christ had in his human spirit of the reasonings in the hearts of the scribes and Pharisees in Mark 2:6-10.

Mark doesn't say it is his 'human' spirit just 'his' spirit. And in 2:10 he uses the word eidon for "to know" rather than ginosko.

To me, however, Mark 2:6-10 is significant because it tells me that Jesus believed paralysis is caused by sinfulness and is 'cured' bu forgiveness.

This is what I mean when I say that the Bible does not portray the world as we know it. It might as well speak of pink unicorns on Jupiter.

[kosta50]

Reminds me of the most absurd things I have ever seen when watching a show on cable(think it was discovery channel) and a minister was trying to drive a demon out of someone by placing a Bible on his head.

Yep, that kind of stuff.

[kosta50]

So what does laying one's hand on a hot stove teach us about eternal life?

What eternal life? Where do you see eternal life? Eternal life is a belief and like all beliefs it is subject to be flawed.

[kosta50]

God has faith? In what?

How do you know what is "sufficient faith?" By whose standards? How do one "measure" the sufficiency of one's faith?

Why not test it by attempting to walk on water, as the Bible syas? If Peter could walk on water, and his faith wasn't so solid, why not any other believer? Unless they have less faith than Peter did?