Posted on 01/23/2010 4:09:32 PM PST by NYer
I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you. 1 Corinthians 11:2
Most Protestant Christians believe that the Bible is the only source concerning faith. According to them, there is no need for Apostolic Tradition or an authoritative, teaching Church. All that they need is the Bible in order to learn about the faith and to live a Christian life. The "Bible Alone" teaching can be appealing in its simplicity, but it suffers from fundamental problems. A few are considered here.
First the Bible itself states that not everything important to the Christian faith is recorded in it. For example, not everything that Christ did is recorded in the inspired Books:
But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. [John 21:25; RSV]
According to John 20:31, some things have been recorded in the Gospel in order to come to know Christ; however, John 21:25 suggests that there is still more to know about Him. At least for St. John the Apostle, there was more that he needed to teach which was not recorded in the Bible:
I had much to write you, but I would rather not write with pen and ink; I hope to see you soon, and we will talk together face to face. [3 John 13-14]
Also St. Paul instructs Timothy on how to orally pass on the teachings of the faith:
...what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. [2 Tim. 2:2]
St. Paul even commands (2 Thess. 3:6) the Thessalonian Christians to follow the oral Traditions of the Apostles:
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us (Apostles), either by word of mouth (oral) or by letter (Epistle). [2 Thess. 2:15]
These commands promoting Oral Tradition would be quite strange, if only the Bible were needed to pass on the entire Christian faith.
A second problem with the "Bible Alone" teaching is canonicity - i.e. which Books belong in the Bible? It must be remembered that the Books of the Bible were written individually along with other religious books. Centuries later the Church compiled together the inspired Books under one cover to form the "Bible." A big question in the early Church was which books are the inspired written Word of God. (Inspired=written by men but authored by God; See Catechism of the Catholic Church 106.)
Scripture did not come with an "inspired" Table of Contents. Nowhere in the sacred texts are all the Books listed. There are some Books cited in the sacred writings but these lists are vague and incomplete (Acts 28:23; 2 Peter 3:16). There are also references to books not found in the Bible, such as St. Paul's Epistle to the Laodiceans (Col. 4:16). St. Paul even encourages the Colossians to read this epistle, but still it is not in the Bible. Jesus in the Gospel never attempts to list the "official" Books of the Old Testament (OT). This issue was hotly debated in His day. Today Protestant and Catholic Christians disagree over which Books belong in the OT. Catholics follow the list in the Septuagint (2nd century B.C. Greek translation of the Hebrew Scripture) while Protestants follow the list used by the Pharisees. A list from Jesus could have eliminated this problem, but no such list is found in the Gospel. As a result the Bible needs a visible authority outside of itself to list the inspired sacred Books. This authority must be guided by the Holy Spirit since these Books are from the Holy Spirit.
Some Christians claim that the Table of Contents in their Bible lists the inspired Books. Even though found in modern Bibles, the Table of Contents is still not inspired. It is not the Word of God but words added later by human editors, much similar to footnotes. The Table of Contents is basically the opinion of the publishing editor. Others may claim that the closing verses in the Book of Revelation, specifically Rev. 22:18-19, cap off the Bible and define all the preceding Books as inspired by God. But do these verses apply to the whole Bible or only the Book of Revelation? Another flaw with this idea is that not all Bibles have the same number of Books. As alluded to above, Catholic and Protestant Bibles contain different numbers of OT Books, yet all these Bibles close with the same verses: Rev. 22:18ff. Both cannot be right. Finally the Book of Deuteronomy contains similar verses (4:2 & 12:32). Does this imply that the Books after Deuteronomy are not inspired by God? No.
A third problem with the "Bible Alone" teaching is proper understanding of critical Bible passages. Most Protestant Christians promote personal interpretation of the Bible, i.e. anyone can interpret these passages by himself. Unfortunately this leads to chaos. For example over Baptism, some Protestants accept the validity of infant Baptism, while others do not. Some believe in the necessity of Baptism for salvation, citing Mark 16:16, while others disagree by citing John 3:16. They all claim to be Bible-based, but still they disagree over fundamental issues regarding salvation. Sadly the "Yellow Pages" phone directory is a witness to the many "Bible-Based" churches who disagree with each other over key issues of the Christian faith. Personal interpretation of the Bible naturally leads to a mire of human doctrines as a result of differing personal opinions.
The Bible was not written as a catechism. It is a collection of many different styles of writing - poetry, history, parables, letters, songs, etc. - requiring different ways of understanding. Sometimes Jesus in the Gospel purposely taught in figurative language and parables, which makes literal interpretation impossible. Even St. Peter admits that St. Paul's Epistles can be difficult to understand:
...Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. [2 Peter 3:15-16]
Finally the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:30ff needed St. Philip to explain the Book of Isaiah. Obviously not everyone can understand the meaning of Scripture by simply reading it. More is required. These difficulties in the Bible demand an independent visible teaching authority that is guided by the Holy Spirit.
Even the Bible points to the importance of the Church for teaching the Truth. According to St. Peter in the Bible:
First of all you must understand this, that no prophesy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. [2 Peter 1:20-21]
At least prophecies in the Bible are not a matter of personal interpretation. These prophesies must be properly interpreted by "men moved by the Holy Spirit" since the Holy Spirit is the Author. These "men" are the Bishops of the Church - the successors to the Apostles (Acts 20:28-32). Finally the Bible does not call itself the bulwark of the truth; however, St. Paul does make reference to the Church in those terms:
...the household of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. [1 Tim. 3:15]
According to the Bible, the Church is "the pillar and bulwark of the truth."
All Christians, including Catholics, should read the Bible in order to grow more in the faith; however, we still need the Church. The Church is needed to accurately pass on Apostolic Tradition (Romans 10:17), define the canon of the Bible (i.e. list the inspired Books), safeguard the accurate transmission (e.g. translations) of the Bible and interpret key passages, all with guidance from the Holy Spirit according to God's Will. The Church is needed for other reasons too. It must be understood that the Church is not merely men making arbitrary decisions but men executing authority from God guided by the Holy Spirit. The Church may at times be tested by scandals or scarred by the sins of men. We may sometimes disagree with the policies of the Church, but she is still the instrument of the Holy Spirit. This visible Church is the one built by Jesus Christ on St. Peter, the rock (Matt. 16:18-19; John 1:24). This is the Catholic Church.
This is simply not true. Mathematics is a language that describes reality.
An axiom is one of: a self evident truth that requires no proof (ie earth-centric universe), a universally accepted principal or rule (ie bathing and cleanliness in general causes illness), or a proposition that is assumed without proof for the sake of studying the consequences that follow from it (no assumption about its validity - indeed many axioms are taken to be untrue, to see what comes from their mathematical consequences). There is nothing about axioms that are proven true. Indeed, in the case of mathematical axioms, there are chosen simply because they are proven false.
Gnosticism can be defined as knowledge from within, without proof or indeed, even evidence.
If you wish to switch definitions to belief, then have at it. There is a monumental difference between the two.
It isn't the PSUCHE alone which provides an area of thinking. The unbeliever can still understand many things in his soul (PSUCHE), but not spiritual things. Spiritual life first comes through the PNEUMA, the human spirit, regenerated by God by exercising faith, a non-meritorious trust in Christ alone.
PNEUMATIKOS is spiritual phenomenon understood. God the Holy Spirit teaches the believer with positive volition, PNEUMATIKOS in the human spirit.
Likewise, a believer out of fellowship with God, will not understand the spiritual life only from the PSUCHE.
GNOSIS is simply knowledge comprehended. GNOSIS is the content of information understood in the mind, the NOUS. When GNOSIS, which is pure from God, i.e. Faith, in the form of Doctrine from God the Holy Spirit's teaching ministry, via the PNEUMATIKOS, it flows into the NOUS in the form of academically understood information or in psychological terms, it might be called receptive comprehension.
In 1Cor 2:14 we see the natural man doesn't receive the things of the Spirit of God. They are foolishness(absurd) to him. Neither can he know(GINOSKO) them, because they are discerned by the Spirit (or PNEUMATIKOS investigated).
God the Holy Spirit isn't finished, though, as the GNOSIS by itself is insufficient for good works by the believer.
That GNOSIS is processed by God the Holy Spirit into EPIGNOSIS in the KARDIA or heart of the soul of the believer.
Note the language of 1Cor 8:1. Knowledge(GNOSIS) puffeth up, but charity(AGAPE) edifieth(OIKODOMEO).
Both the believer out of fellowship and the unbeliever can have GNOSIS, but not GNOSIS of PNEUMATIKOS. That only comes in the believer through faith in Christ, while the believer is in fellowship with God the Holy Spirit and by the Grace of God.
Consider Mark 2:6-8 complemented by Luke 5:21-22.
Specifically in Mark 2:8
Mar 2:8 (8) And immediately when Jesus perceived(EPIGINOSKO) in his spirit(PNEUMA, human spirit) that they so reasoned(DIALOGIZOMAI) (they had reasoned from the preceding verses, who can forgive sins but God Himself) within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason(DIALOGIZOMAI) ye these things in your hearts(KARDIA)?
Compare with Luke 5:22
Luk 5:22 (22) But when Jesus perceived(EPIGINOSKO) their thoughtsThis is also an outstanding example of the doctrine of Kenosis, where our Lord Christ Jesus receives PNEUMATIKOS from God the Holy Spirit in his human spirit of the thoughts of the scribes and Pharisees, then simply asks them why they are reasoning such things in their hearts.
He then by Grace displays for them that He not only had power over the palsy, but also had power upon earth to forgive sins.
Why do you think spiritual truth also isn't consistent or subject to either objective or logical scrutiny, if that scrutiny is PNEUMATIKOS discerned? 1 Cor 2:14 seems to indicate otherwise.
Magnificent insight through faith in Christ. A well developed heart manifesting victory in testing of His doctrines.
We all were condemned prior to placing faith alone in Christ alone, and now believers can see through faith in Him.
No, it is blatantly the Christian way of life. All believers have equal opportunity to Jeshrun status through faith in Him, by the grace of God and the work of God the Holy Spirit in the believer.
No need to change definitions, merely understanding the meanings of GNOSIS and PISTIS. GNOSIS through PISTIS is provided by PNEUMATIKOS.
Pondered it some more.
I still view it at the expense of silly notions.
. . . which . . . is as I intended.
It has been my experience that when we glorify Christ, even though some incredibly ‘personal’ information might be made available to us by God the Holy Spirit, we remain in faith with Him, and are able to focus our thinking upon Him when expressing ourselves to others.
If some unbelievers or those out of fellowship really knew how incredibly ‘personal’ some of the spiritually provided information made known to believers with such gifts,...really is, they might be extremely surprised.
In some respects, when an out of fellowship believer attends a Bible Study by a pastor, with the spiritual gift of pastor-teacher, it is almost as if they are attending the services naked and not realizing it.
Of course, I am probably no better than the worst of us. (all the more reason to remain in fellowship, keep short accounts, and pray continually.) ;^)
On the other hand, I’ve also discovered on many an occasion, that things which people hide, frequently don’t have to be exposed to fellow believers or unbelievers, in order for His Plan to still function, by believers in fellowship with Him, even when they might be unwittingly ‘played’ by the cosmic worldly system.
Those hidden things, though, need to be confessed to God through faith in Christ after returning to facing Him, for forgiveness and return to fellowship with Him. Most times none of need any such personal information to still perform as He has made us. Thankfully, rewards still await the faithful at the bema seat.
I believe in what the Bible says, you believe there is revealed truth outside the Bible, in men’s traditions
for the first two or three hundred years of christianity there was no ‘BIBLE’ as we know it....what did those people do....The Catholic Church was the ONLY source of Christianity and as far as I’m concerned, still is. You have a book about 1 1/2 inches thick and you expct all the truths in the universe are in there.....the bible itself explains that there are not enough pages in the world to describe what Jesus had done while on earth.....why not accept eye witness testimony, objective interpretations and in reality revalations coming about other than those through identified “prophets” remember, Christ promised His church that He would guide it until the end of time...I would interpret that promise as giving the Catholic church the extraordinary gift of being infallible in matters of faith and morals.......for 1500 years all christians were Catholic and lo and behold, along came Martin luther and a whole lot of new interpretations of what the bible really said......the bible warns of false prophets, I think I’ve found a few!!
Another terrible analogy. What we have is a pot that if faithful is promised full heirship with the son of the potter. That's much different.
Given that we are promised to be heirs and, as was previously stated, are in the image and likeness (less than God, now) of God. How do the two relate?
Is our path to Heaven a theosis?
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. – I Cor 12:3
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:20
you: Yet those who are deprived of the gift are condemned.
Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? - Matthew 20:13
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. - James 2:10
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. - Galatians 2:21
It really is that simple.
Thank you for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!
Seriously though, it is unlikely we will affect our correspondent's views. But the Lurkers might find a useful tidbit here and there.
Thank you for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!
And so you see where this axiom "bottoms out": God is Truth. No further analysis is possible at this point. For an axiom, by definition, is not separable into lesser parts, of which it can be said to be "composed." So there's nothing more primitive to find and analyze; i.e., by which to "prove" the axiom. That's why axioms are said to possess the quality of self-evidence, at least in mathematical/logical terms. Evidently axioms — "impredicativities" as he called them — drove Bertrand Russell nutz.... He declared them to be prime examples of "circular reasoning."
Maybe so; but still they are to be found at the very basis of human thought, at all times and places....
Man is not the measure of God.
Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!
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