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To: boatbums; Cronos; Dr. Eckleburg; caww; Mr Rogers; MarkBsnr
Do you believe we love God of our own free will?

LOL! How much time do you have? :) The problem with the easy answer is that in discussions like this "free will" can mean ten different things to ten different people. But I can still try. :)

My belief is that when we are born we are born with "A" will, and that will is free to sin. In fact, that's all it knows how to do. At some point the elect (those already chosen by God) will receive grace. That grace will change (or change out) our old wills and something new will take its place. This new will differs from the old in that it has eyes that can see and ears that can hear. This new will is able to perceive the truth, something the old will could not.

So this new will is free to see God and when the new will sees the Truth it is inexorably drawn to it (to Him). These are the sheep who follow Christ's voice. I am perfectly comfortable in calling this freely choosing God, especially since that was my experience. My experience in choosing God was no different than anyone else's "yes" to Christ and I certainly felt free to decide.

But I understand that many will disagree, and consider this "fake" freedom because it was all orchestrated by God, infallibly for His elect. So if I, as a Reformer, accept for purposes of discussion the free will advocate's view of free will, then I would say that we do not love God of our own free will, since all was ordained by God long before I had a will of any kind. It all depends on how we look at it.

Go back to what Christ says about the sheep. He says that when sheep hear their own shepherd's voice they will follow, (but they will not follow a stranger's voice) because that's what sheep do (John 10:4-5). In the same way when the regenerated elect hear Christ's voice they will likewise follow because that is what the elect do (v. 14-16, 27). Is that free will? I suppose we can take any side we wish, but of course it will not change whatever the truth is according to Christ.

8,062 posted on 02/02/2010 1:20:42 PM PST by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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To: Forest Keeper
Nominslists, all of you! Nominalists!

(Mutters in beer.)

Consarned nominalists! They think when they fall in love they've lost freedom when they're just beginning to find it!

(morer beer.)

8,063 posted on 02/02/2010 1:42:12 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Cronos; Dr. Eckleburg; caww; Mr Rogers; MarkBsnr; Mad Dawg
Thanks for your response. I have gathered then, that some do and some do not believe we are able to love God of our own free will. The point I was trying to make with the initial question of "Do you believe we love God of our own free will?" is in what scenario is God glorified more:

a. Only select people who are chosen by God beforehand are given the ability to love God. They love God because God gives them that love.

b. People who are blessed by God and given only the good things in life love God. God is loved because they are happy.

c. Some people love God, not because he makes them or because of all does for them, but purely by their own free will because of who he is and what he means to them.

When Satan came to God about Job, the argument he made was that Job only loved God because of how much God had blessed him materially. God knew Job's heart and allowed the trials Satan brought down on him. Some people say this was an object lesson to Satan to prove how wrong Satan was in rejecting God himself. He had been the anointed cherub in heaven and because of pride he wanted to take the place of God. He was cast out of his place in heaven and will one day be cast into the lake of fire for the rest of eternity.

In my view, God is most glorified when we, by our own will, choose to love him. In spite of all we may suffer in this life, we still choose God. Not only is God glorified, but I believe Satan and all his angels are stunned by the fact that we weak, powerless humans can freely choose to believe, follow and love our creator and see him as our Heavenly Father.

8,067 posted on 02/02/2010 3:20:52 PM PST by boatbums
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