[Forest Keeper]

Christ has fully and completely atoned for any sin anyone has committed or will commit, big or small, confessed and absolved or not, cleansed in Purgatory or not. Is that clearer?

Yes, and you are right that my question had nothing whatsoever to do with purgatory.

Any penitential action one can do does not add to the atonement worked by Christ. That includes simple inward sorrow for a sin, outward sorrow expressed to others in words, restitution of material harm done, physical self-punishment or self-humiliation, prayers, pilgrimages and Bible studies, sacramental confession, reception of absolution, purgatorial cleansing, -- none of that makes the sin in question any better atoned for than it was atoned at Golgotha near 2,000 years ago. What these acts of penance do is apply the atonement to your soul.

That would appear to mean that Christ's atonement attaches on a step by step basis as mortal sins occur throughout life. Is there any scriptural basis for this? We would call this justification by faith, a one time event. How would you interpret these scriptures which we think support this view:

Rom. 3:21-26 : 21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Rom. 5:18-19 : 18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

If one act brings life then how could attachment be a partial and repeated process? Wouldn't you really have to say that it was the penance that brings life because THAT is what makes the atonement of any value to the individual? The passage shows a match but there is no match with the process view. Jesus' saving sacrifice was a one time event, not a process.

FK: why in the normal course is someone required to confess a mortal sin and then be absolved by a priest in order to get into Heaven?

For the same reason a Christian would nevertheless do the penitential works enumerated above: sorrow for the sin and love for Christ. If you convinced yourself that since Christ has atoned for whatever you do, you can let your conscience atrophy, -- then you eliminated yourself from the Elect, not because Christ did not give you the atonement, but because you did not take it. Christ gave you Heaven and you chose Hell.

Do you see a grammatical problem with the idea of election being on again, off again, and on again, etc.? If election means chosen by God then how can it go back and forth since God doesn't change His mind?

It is by what you do that you will be saved; not alone for what Christ did.

I suppose in the overall scheme of things there's something more I do not understand. In the OT the focus was on the physical (physical deeds), many of which were only symbolic, like the sacrifices. With the coming of Christ the focus shifted to the spiritual, we were no longer under the Law. Why then, would Catholicism refocus the attention back to the physical both in this life with the sacraments being salvific, and at the end times at judgment? This seems like a reversion to me. The bigger problem is that we know that the physical in the OT was symbolic, but here the physical is taken in the literal sense.

[annalex]

Christ's atonement attaches on a step by step basis as mortal sins occur throughout life

I would say it applies as you sin and repent. If you don't repent it does not apply to you. These are steps only in this sense:

brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin [even, stumble] at any time. (2 Peter 1:10, the whole process of sanctification is verses 2-10)

The process is gradual:

12 ... my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation. 13 For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will. 14 And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; 15 That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof

(Phil. 2)

now our salvation is nearer than when we believed (Rom. 13:11)

Justification is by faith which fuels our works of love. But it is not one time event. It is a process.

The passages in Romans 3 and Romans 5 do not say anything different. They explain how if it weren't for Christ we would not be justified at all. It does not say that justification, or salvation are single one time events in their application to the believer.

Wouldn't you really have to say that it was the penance that brings life because THAT is what makes the atonement of any value to the individual?

No, I would not, because penance is not efficacious without the Cross. I have to add my penance to the suffering of Christ -- I am in fact, asked by Christ to do so

If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. (Matthew 16:24, many similar)

[I, Paul] rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church (1 Col 1:24, often mistranslated)

-- but my suffering never stands on its own. My cross follows His Cross.

grammatical problem with the idea of election being on again, off again, and on again, etc.?

No, no problem. It is the end result that God foresees. It only seems a bumpy road to me, He knows where I end up. One cannot lose his election in the sense of God thinking one thing and you end up different. But one can have an imperfect sense of God working in him when in fact it is he himself working in himself to a disastrous end. One can lose the salvation available, through the Cross, to him. To lose one's election is a Biblical term (2Pe. 1:10) but the reference is of course to the loss of salvation despite a strong hope.

In the OT the focus was on the physical (physical deeds), many of which were only symbolic, like the sacrifices. With the coming of Christ the focus shifted to the spiritual, we were no longer under the Law. Why then, would Catholicism refocus the attention back to the physical both in this life with the sacraments being salvific, and at the end times at judgment? This seems like a reversion to me

We are no longer under the law of Jewish symbolisms. We are under a Law of he new convenant. It is different in that it is not legalistic. Not to murder, for example is not enough, -- anger qualifies as murder (Mt 5:21). The Old Testament Law told the Jews in simple terms what not to do. This is like you teach a child not to run with scissors. But an adult needs an adult law where he needs to focus on what to do: love God and one another. The sacraments are no longer rutuals to fulfill, they are roadposts and food on the journey, the Bread of Life.