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To: Mr Rogers
John 1; 9 That was the true Light, which lights his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them he gave the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

We need to remember that this was written without punctuation AND VERSES

That sentence reads as follows

...his own received him not. but to as many as received to them HE gave the power to become the sons of God

This is talking about the jews (His own people) ..they did not receive him, BUT to those that did.. HE gave the power to become the children of God.. THEN John , under the guidance of the Holy Spirit qualifies the sentence telling us it was not their lineage or their "free will" But they were born again only by the will of God ...

6,764 posted on 01/27/2010 2:28:01 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: RnMomof7

Why do you think I’m saying we are born again by the will of man? Man did not create the means of salvation, he did not envision it, he did not carry it out. All we need to do is believe - and THAT is taught by a gazillion verses!

NO MAN REACHES UP TO HEAVEN AND PULLS GOD DOWN! But IF God has chosen to save those who believe, then THAT is his will, and those who believe will be saved, not by the will of man, but by the will of God.

There is no conflict - none at all - between John 1:12-13 and Arminius. However, there IS conflict with Calvin. For John says belief is involved, and Calvin says election. To say we must believe, when belief is something impossible for the rejected and inescapable for the chosen is sophistry. It PRETENDS it is about faith and belief, when neither are the point.

It makes God a liar.

If Calvin is right, and God is honest, then these verses should read:

“He came to his own, and his own people could not receive him. But to all whom he elected he gave belief and the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”

And John the Baptist should have said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the elect!”

Indeed, if Calvin is right and God is honest, then there should be 500 verses about election, and 30 about believing.


6,766 posted on 01/27/2010 2:50:58 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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