Replies

Thank you so much for your replies and insights, dear xone!

I read from your two posts three rationales that whoever established the close communion doctrine may use before Christ to justify withholding what he believed to be His body and His blood (your words, title emphasis mine, weakest to strongest:)

1. Fear: “At my church if you got ushered up for Communion, you would get it, but if you held heterodox beliefs or were not Christian at all, that redounds to our pastor to answer at his judgement…My Church allows for pastoral discretion on the issue since the pastor is the on on the hook so to speak.”

2. Love: ”Catholics/Lutherans or any others who practice 'close communion' do so out of love.”

3. Unity: ”These Catholic doctrines are also being affirmed during the sacrament as a matter of the unity of faith…The practice of 'come one come all' Communion has a negative effect on the spiritual unity of a congregation, and that is why it is discouraged.”

I would not advise using fear as an excuse before Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment:

And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? – Mark 4:40

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. – I John 4:18

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. – Rev 21:8

The appeal to love has merit but rings hollow. As you say “Since we are not omniscient, we can't know the hearts of our visitors or members” – and thus the pastor may also by offering the cup and bread to a member with an unclean heart and thereby may likewise be a party to his condemnation under I Cor 11:29-30. So if withholding the cup and bread from a non-member is the loving thing to do, shouldn’t he also be loving to the members of his own assembly whose conscience is likewise unknowable to him?

The appeal to unity has the ring of truth, that it is an exclusionary practice to separate the assembly, the body, the church, from the world.

But the assembly in this case – by this doctrine – is one along doctrinal lines such as Catholic or Lutheran. A person wholly submitted to God but not choosing between competing religious authorities each claiming exclusive authority to shepherd him and to offer Christ’s body and blood - would be excluded from both.

I endeavor to pray without ceasing, walk in His Light and follow His leading in every respect (Romans 8, John 15) – and since He has not led me to join any exclusive assembly, I shall remain an outsider to all of them, excluded by them, but included by Him.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. – John 1:12-13

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. - John 3:5-8

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. – Romans 8:1-9

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. – Romans 8:14-18

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. - I John 2:27

For the record, I eschew all hard divisions within the body of Christ (Catholic, Orthodox, Calvinism, etc.) Who is Paul? Who is Apollos? (I Corinthians 3:1-7) We are all Christian, we are all His. We are the sheep and He is the Good Shepherd (John 10.)

In a subsequent post, annalex asks whether I discern the body and blood of Christ. I waited to respond, because my reply is relevant to this reply.

Yes, I do discern the body and blood of Christ. I am one of His sheep. He feeds me (Psalms 23.) Man does not control God.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? – Acts 10:44-47

And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? – Acts 11:15-17

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. – Acts 15:1

My spiritual leading is that close communion is a broken cistern.

For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, [and] hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. – Jeremiah 2:13

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) – John 7:38-39

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. – I Corinthians 12:13

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. - Matthew 4:4

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. – 1 Corinthians 10:1-4

Love God. Believe Him. Trust Him.

I initially thought on this topic that I likely would find something to quibble with you about.

Yet again, at the end of this excellent piece, I find myself agreeing with you wholesale.

Praise God for your Spirit anointed wisdom and discernment in sharing a very Biblical, wise and balanced perspective.

It has repeatedly appeared to me that folks immersed up to their addicted, narrow, rigid biases in INSTITUTIONALISM, IN RELIGIONISM . . . just do not seem . . . or just do not tend to put God first above all else—and oddly, least above THEIR INSTITUTION purportedly formed to put him first.

Humans are such . . . crazy critters.

THIS REMINDED ME OF YOUR POST:

It is vividly along the lines of what I’ve expected for a long time. I believe there will be other flavors and forms of this sort of thing. Organized RELIGIONISM will be largely abandoned by authentic believers.

Some even denominational churches may well survive and do God’s work—but it will be IN SPITE of their organizations instead of because of them. They will be local congregations whose leadership has effectively LED THE PEOPLE IN PUTTING GOD FIRST IN ALL THINGS REGARDLESS . . . and particularly in Loving God foremost and people as themselves. They will have an emphasis on worship, following Holy Spirit WHEREVER AND HOWEVER HE LEADS and on helping the poor.

JUST RECEIVED:

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From: REVIVAL List [mailto:prophetic@revivalschool.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 2:17 PM
To: anzac@welovegod.org
Subject: [revival] AN “OUT-of-CHURCH” REVIVAL??

AN “OUT-of-CHURCH” REVIVAL??
-by Mike Story.

I thought you’d be interested in what’s happening here in Finland.

There is an extraordinary movement of the Holy Ghost here.
Something unprecedented in its size and growth.

Young people are Coming To Faith; they have an immediate
desire to go out into the streets and bring others into the fold.
There is NO interest in “church” or religion at all!

They want teaching and spiritual fathers & mothers; they know
“only milk” yet go out and teach that to kids in the streets ...
And they Come To Faith!

We have had to open our houses to them ( we were told to buy an
old village school 20 years ago... so surprise-surprise we have
two classrooms where we can train groups of future leaders ). Kids
are leaving the churches and seeking The Lord elsewhere because
they can’t find Him in the religion and ceremonies and that applies
just as much to Pentecostal as to Free church, Lutheran, Orthodox,
Anglican, Baptist as it does to ALL Organised Religion: they WANT
what I call “inspired disorganisation” where MAN doesn’t do the
organising; we just LISTEN ... And then do as we are told!

One young man ( to whom I have lent my copy of Out Of Church
Christians before I even read it myself ! ) is co-ordinating these
groups and acts as an enabler; bringing teaching from elders ( in
the “mature Christian” sense ) to beginners; arranging meetings
and encouraging these young people to keep going ! Very Book Of Acts!

The LORD is doing extraordinary things in India, in Andaman and
in Finland ... Thought you’d like to know!

-Dr Mike Story.

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MODERATOR:
Andrew Strom.

Amen, Alamo-Girl! Thanks for your excellent post. To outright forbid the sharing of the Lord's Supper with another Christian seems like a peculiar form of intimidation.

According to the Westminster Confession of Faith, the Lord's Supper is for confessing, Trinitarian, baptized Christians. As you rightly noted from Mark...

"And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?" -- Mark 4:40

Thank you all, this is my shot at convincing you why you would not want to partake of the Lord’s Supper with those who have serious doctrinal disagreements with you.

AG: I note that under the Office of the Keys, a pastor of a congregation has responsibilities before God that the average parishioner does not. As the Stewart of the Lord’s Supper, he is also responsible to Host for the proper manner and care for the people who partake of it.

As I am not a mind-reader, before I begin with this illustrious group, I must make some doctrinal points so you all can see from whence I come:

1. The Lord’s Supper has two visible elements and two Invisible ones. The Invisible Ones are the Body and Blood of Christ. They get there by the power of God’s Word via the Words of Institution. So with the bread and wine (and it IS wine) we receive the Body and Blood of Christ when we commune at a denominational altar. That is what we believe and confess.

2. “The Lutheran church rejects and condemns incorrect understandings of the Lord’s Supper, such as the view that the sacrifice of the Mass delivers man from his sins, or that the substance of the consecrated bread and wine is actually changed into the body and blood of Christ. We also reject and condemn the view that in the Lord’s Supper the true body and blood of Christ is not received by the mouth of the communicants, under the bread and wine, but is received only spiritually in the heart by faith, or that the bread and wine are only symbols of the far-distant body and blood of our Lord.”

(http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:h3EwHN40pUQJ:www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/LCMS/wa_fellowship-lordssupper.pdf+close+communion&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiHRdANOnqtoNm63yp8RfCEOaez8BrQ46X1Sbx1pL-zMQjxN14kDe7ecKUCOThHt7lPWxaTHhVXJKFPIxmB7A_c1KMGLD_Rz3TatgiWWd0tq-CKBBXT839aA7tgZswY48c2EwtU&sig=AHIEtbRfcyt6l5VCFqPw8NWwdtDlikrxew)

3. In the Lord’s Supper we proclaim ourselves in the common confession of the Christian faith. “As the hymn writer says ‘one in hope and doctrine, one in charity.’”

The Lord’s Supper is a sacrament that looks ‘upward and outward’ as the Cross of Christ does, communion with our Lord and communion with our fellow Christians, a common confession of faith. Therefore when you commune you are affirming the doctrines of those participating with you. If you disagree with those doctrines or don’t understand them, you should seek clarification with a responsible doctrinal authority like the pastor or the priest.

I conclude with this cut and paste link: http://www.lcmsdistricts.org/graphics/assets/media/Minnesota%20North/sevenmyths.pdf

(if one of you could give me the cliff notes on the posting of live links I’d appreciate it.) The last footnote is instructive lest I be accused of denominationalism.

The Peace of the Lord be with you always.

So if withholding the cup and bread from a non-member is the loving thing to do, shouldn’t he also be loving to the members of his own assembly whose conscience is likewise unknowable to him?

Yes. When persistent sin is public knowledge, the priest should withhold the Eucharist also from a Catholic. When the sin is unknown, the presumption is that the Catholic confessed it and received absolution. When a known non-Catholic approaches to receive, the presumption of being in the state of grace cannot be made, and the Eucharist is withheld. That is because at least one thing that is known about the person is that he or she resisted conversion so far.

You then go on to say that you recognize the Real Presence of Christ. So then you are in a curious position where Christ asked you to eat of His body, you know that He did, yet you won't do it for one reason or another. This is hard to reconcile with freedom from sin, and hence with the conditions spelled out in 1 Cor 11.