I believe I've already pointed out the verse in John that we believe because we belong to Christ. You rejected it without offering a reasonable interpretation. Faith, which is cause of our believe, is a gift from God and is documented in Corinthians. Yet you don't seem to want to admit that. I have pointed out the verse in Timothy that states God brings us to repentance. But somehow I didn't receive a logical explanation but only more scriptures taken out of context. I see no discussion of John 6 of how God the Father gives us to the Son and the Son keeps us.
Of course, you agree that man can resist God’s ‘public call’, and you agree that we can resist God’s will in our lives
No, I never made that claim. No one can resist the will of God regardless whether they are saved or not. Jonah certainly didn't want to go to Nineveh. You could say that he exercised his "free will" and headed in the other direction. God brought him back.
It says we have power to STRIVE: ...Do you deny it?
Absolutely. It's heresy. We rest in Christ. The Lord is our Shepherd who guides us even though we walk through the valley of death. We can do nothing without Christ and we have NO power within us to strive against the darkness.
Someone forgot to tell Jesus & Paul.“Mat 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
What, the WE can strive against the world. This is Catholic doctrine. Wasn't it Paul that stated, "I can do all things IN CHRIST who strenghtens me"? Or how about Christ who said, "I am the vine you are the branches. Without me you can do nothing." No, I think Jesus and Paul were both informed.
First the Father draws. And if God does not intervene, none of us have the choice of coming. But God HAS drawn us, and those who respond by coming
This interpretation falls flat in light of Romans 1-3. God does not draw all men. Judas was one of many scriptural examples.
Now why would the Holy Spirit forbid speaking in certain places? Don’t know.
Don't you think it would be a good idea to try to understand why?
The SBC says there is ample room for both in the Convention, so the official SBC position is that we are not heretics.
I might point out, this was the same position the Pope took with John Cassian and Augustine interpretation of scripture about 400 AD. It eventually lead to the Reformation.
“I believe I’ve already pointed out the verse in John that we believe because we belong to Christ. You rejected it without offering a reasonable interpretation.”
You’ve rejected hundreds of verses without ANY explanation. We’re saved by grace thru election. Regardless of what scripture says. OK...
Faith is a gift in 1 Corinthians? Well, sort of...that old context thing is a killer, isn’t it HD!
“4Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.”
The spiritual gift of faith is not to salvation, for these gifts the Holy Spirit “apportions to each one individually as he wills”. Unless you are saying we can be saved without any faith, given or not!
Calvin wrote: “The term faith is employed here to mean a special faith, as we shall afterwards see from the context. A special faith is of such a kind as does not apprehend Christ wholly, for redemption, righteousness, and sanctification, but only in so far as miracles are performed in his name. Judas had a faith of this kind, and he wrought miracles too by means of it. Chrysostom distinguishes it in a somewhat different manner, calling it the faith of miracles, not of doctrines.”
At least Calvin read it in context!
Timothy “24And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.”
That is entirely in agreement with what Arminius taught and I’ve frequently stated - we do not save ourselves, nor seek God by ourselves. After conversion, we still need God’s intervention! And as I have said repeatedly, God gives his grace in different measure. So will he give more explicit revelation, or write them off? Paul doesn’t know. After all, no one expected Paul to convert either - except God, who foreknew all.
“I see no discussion of John 6 of how God the Father gives us to the Son and the Son keeps us.”
Actually, I discussed it at length. You might not agree, but it is not the same as not discussed.
“No one can resist the will of God regardless whether they are saved or not.”
Ahhh...so we sin by God’s will. Fascinating. I hope you will understand if I think that is utterly unscriptural. You are the first person I’ve met who says God wants us to sin...indeed, compels us to sin.
And you call Arminius a heretic??????
“What, the WE can strive against the world.”
“4As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” 17And if you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one’s deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile, 18knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.” 1 Peter 1
” 3But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. 4Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. 5For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous ( that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not become partners with them; 8for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9(for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), 10and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. 12For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. 13But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, 14for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says,
“Awake, O sleeper,
and arise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, 19addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, 20 giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.” - Ephesians 5
“12Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
14Do all things without grumbling or questioning, 15that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. “ - Phil 2
I could go on, but just pick up the scripture and read passages at random. You won’t go far before you discover we are not called to idleness. And John Calvin agreed with me, not you.
“5. I insist not that the life of the Christian shall breathe nothing but the perfect Gospel, though this is to be desired, and ought to be attempted. I insist not so strictly on evangelical perfection, as to refuse to acknowledge as a Christian any man who has not attained it. In this way all would be excluded from the Church, since there is no man who is not far removed from this perfection, while many, who have made but little progress, would be undeservedly rejected. What then? Let us set this before our eye as the end at which we ought constantly to aim. Let it be regarded as the goal towards which we are to run. For you cannot divide the matter with God, undertaking part of what his word enjoins, and omitting part at pleasure. For, in the first place, God uniformly recommends integrity as the principal part of his worship, meaning by integrity real singleness of mind, devoid of gloss and fiction, and to this is opposed a double mind; as if it had been said, that the spiritual commencement of a good life is when the internal affections are sincerely devoted to God, in the cultivation of holiness and justice. But seeing that, in this earthly prison of the body, no man is supplied with strength sufficient to hasten in his course with due alacrity, while the greater number are so oppressed with weakness, that hesitating, and halting, and even crawling on the ground, they make little progress, let every one of us go as far as his humble ability enables him, and prosecute the journey once begun. No one will travel so badly as not daily to make some degree of progress. This, therefore, let us never cease to do, that we may daily advance in the way of the Lord; and let us not despair because of the slender measure of success. How little soever the success may correspond with our wish, our labour is not lost when to-day is better than yesterday, provided with true singleness of mind we keep our aim, and aspire to the goal, not speaking flattering things to ourselves, nor indulging our vices, but making it our constant endeavour to become better, until we attain to goodness itself. If during the whole course of our life we seek and follow, we shall at length attain it, when relieved from the infirmity of flesh we are admitted to full fellowship with God.”
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/chr_life.iii.html
“This interpretation falls flat in light of Romans 1-3. God does not draw all men.”
“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” - Jesus
However, “draw” does not mean conversion. It means to pull us around to see Christ. See Matt 22:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%2022&version=ESV
Mr R “Now why would the Holy Spirit forbid speaking in certain places? Don’t know.”
HD “Don’t you think it would be a good idea to try to understand why?”
Well, YOUR explanation was “The only obvious answer is because it is His will that they DON’T repent.”
What does scripture say, although Calvinists don’t seem to pay it much mind...
“3This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” - 1 Tim 2
“31 Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; so turn, and live.” - Ezekial 18
Who does this passage REALLY apply to:
“’You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.
15For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’ - Matt 13