As a matter of belief and habit . . .
I TEND to extend a lot of grace to accounts from reliable sounding folks . . . particularly those which 'include a witness in my spirit' on encountering them spoken or read.
I do so regarding those accounts from all Trinitarian Christian belief systems--including Roman Catholicism et al.
By the same token, it is somewhat disturbing to read so many . . . frankly outlandish things . . . which seemingly so many 'faithful' take as Gospel TRUTH or 98.95% Gospel Truth--when to me they are outrageous to horrific claims, if not devilish DECEPTIONS, myths.
I realize that the Vatican has an extensive process through which to vet accounts.
I'm not impressed. I've watched vetting processes in Pentecostal circles as well as other denominations.
Certainly I Cor 14 is a Biblical standard for such a vetting process in terms of Holy Spirit led pronouncements in a common congregational service. And I believe in the vetting process quite strongly. I think it's the best we have.
However, I do NOT believe that THAT process NOR the Vatican process can routinely overcome human failings.
In terms of Pentecostal et al AS WELL AS ALL OTHER Christian circles . . .
1. leadership biases;
2. political or perceived social star status of leaders or those giving such pronouncements;
3. GROUP THINK in the local group;
4. current trends in Pentecostalism (or whatever IN-GROUP is involved);
5. personal bias; customs of that particular congregation--including customary perspectives;
6. emotional intensity being taken for Holy Spirit's intensity;
7. Spiritual, organizational and/or relational pedigree, source or loftiness of a particular educational training, level of training or 'erudition' of those involved;
8. a certain particular theological and/or emotional and/or even truly spiritual context in Christianity at large or in the local congregation lending itself to a particular interpretation or sensibility;
. . . all can contribute to a contaminated assessment of a given pronouncement purportedly from God.
I realize that non-Pentecostal Evangelicals will be likely to rise up and exclaim most forcefully about SEE!!! THAT'S NOT SOLA SCRIPTURA and is therefore not only suspect but automatically anathama. Tough tacos. That's NOT Biblical, to me, either. And, I've personally experienced very powerfully and intensely otherwise--as LATER CONFIRMED BY DRAMATIC, TANGIBLE LIFE EVENTS.
Scripture does not include careful instructions about which person to marry; which car or house to buy; which job to take or whether to move to a different town or country or not. Yet, I have found that God Almighty cares quite deeply for countless more shallow decisions and decision points in our lives than those. He is quite willing to give HIS INPUT on such matters if we are focused on Him and seeking His input as His Scriptures instruct.
So the issue of WHETHER such inputs CAN BE AUTHENTICALLY from God IS NOT a problem to me as a class of phenomena.
They are, however, also not automatically taken at face value in all cases.
I believe that I Cor 14 is the standard Biblical vetting procedure. However, I believe that many things authentically and responsibly vetted accordingly--must also wait the test of time and OVERT CONFIRMATION FROM THE LORD IN OBVIOUSLY TANGIBLE WAYS--before being taken as clear and reliable truth from Holy Spirit.
GROUP THINK and human emotions, biases, dependencies, needs etc. are soooooo POWERFUL toward distorting things. This is VERY INDEPENDENT of any particular doctrine or denominational structure or any magicsterical oversight group. I have observed that virtually all the groups I've been in or observed or read about, regardless of denomination, . . . ALL SUCH GROUPS . . . ALL CHRISTIAN GROUPS OF HUMANS . . . are VERY VULNERABLE to such distortions of inputs from Holy Spirit regardless or virtually regardless of how the inputs come.
Now I haven't seen any such inputs arrive by a big hand writing on a wall--thankfully--given the last such message. Nor have I seen a literal burning bush. I suppose that SOME miraculous manifestations would tip the scales obviously and overtly over the line into OBVIOUSLY FROM GOD.
Though in many contexts--involving "Heavenly messengers," we are Scripturally exhorted to check whether they agree that Jesus came in the flesh etc.
However, I believe we are living in the END TIMES AND that satan is going to be allowed to 'miraculously' (as Scripture indicates) manifest dramatic things to deceive folks not putting God first--even using "angels of light" who must be vetted per the above criteria--Jesus coming in the flesh.
And, I know (i.e. I'm as certain as one can be without being trained in such technologies) that the globalists already have technologies in their arsenal which can easily PRODUCE "SPIRITUAL" SEEMING MANIFESTATIONS IN GROUPS AND IN INDIVIDUALS' MINDS.
It's more than a little plausible that fallen angels have had such capacities through the centuries.
Regardless, imho, vetting such phenomena is likely, in many cases, to become HARDER, not easier.
I do NOT think that THAT should become occasion for running the other direction and denying or avoiding such phenomena and their proper vetting.
The complex days, months and likely several years that are looming . . . will NEED DIRECT GUIDANCE FROM HOLY SPIRIT such as when to stay; when to go; where to stay; where to go; how to prepare; what to leave; what to go to; etc. And GOD HAS PROMISED TO NEVER LEAVE US NOR FORSAKE US AND TO LEAD AND GUIDE US. He IS FAITHFUL IN ALL HIS promises.
We don't want to be like the blokes in the joke on the house top in the flood who resisted the canoe, the motor boat and the helicopter and complained that God didn't come for them.
Personally, I think HIS PRIORITY IS THAT WE LEARN TO HEAR AND DISCERN HIS STILL SMALL VOICE IN HIS INDIVIDUALLY UNIQUE WAYS OF SPEAKING TO US IN THE CONTEXT OF OUR RELATIONSHP WITH HIM.
imho, there's a time for applying I Cor 14 in a group setting--routinely, I think that's crucial and fitting.
However, there's also a time to ignore EVERYONE ELSE IN ONE'S TRUSTED REFERENCE GROUP (EVEN) AND HEARING AND TRUSTING AND OBEYING GOD ALONE.
Moses did not check with all his buddies and wives about whether to listen to God in the burning Bush, or not. And, I think: Neither did Noah, Elisha, John the Baptist, or Paul, usually.
And, I don't think there's a hard fast rule or set of rules that makes all such "safe." The only safety is the arms of Jesus.
It is not safely reliable to resist such inputs. It is not safely reliable to be gullible toward all such inputs. I've been disciplined firmly on both ends of that continuum.
CHRIST MADE CLEAR THAT HIS SHEEP WILL HEAR HIS VOICE. If that's not happening--people are either NOT HIS SHEEP or are NOT LISTENING. I think that's an inescapable and obvious--and important Biblical conclusion--all the more so in this era when we ALL SERIOUSLY NEED to be able to hear THE STILL SMALL INNER VOICE OF THE LORD.
Nevertheless, a number of assertions in John Ferraro's book as well as a lot of assertions from folks like Benny Hin, Pat Robertson, to some, even Jesse Du Plantis et al would justify more than the usual Calvinist clique screaming THROW IT ALL OUT.
And it's SIMPLER to throw the baby out with the bath.
But that's NOT what God says to do. He says to discern . . . and to hold fast that which is good.
Sometimes discerning the GOOD really does seem to entail the near impossible task of picking fly specks out of the pepper. Alas, imho, we have no choice.
HE IS AFTER ALL, TRAINING US TO RULE AND REIGN WITH CHRIST. Dare we ignore or resist such training?
I think NOT.
I think this Oswald Chambers segment from that thread is worth posting here:
Daily Reflections with Oswald Chambers [January 24, 2010]
My Utmost for His Highest (The Golden Book of Oswald Chambers;1992) ^ | 1935/1992 | Oswald Chambers
Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 5:20:05 AM by Vision
God’s Overpowering Purpose
“I have appeared to you for this purpose . . .”
—Acts 26:16
The vision Paul had on the road to Damascus was not a passing emotional experience, but a vision that had very clear and emphatic directions for him. And Paul stated, “I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision” (Acts 26:19). Our Lord said to Paul, in effect, “Your whole life is to be overpowered or subdued by Me; you are to have no end, no aim, and no purpose but Mine.” And the Lord also says to us, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go . . .” (John 15:16).
When we are born again, if we are spiritual at all, we have visions of what Jesus wants us to be. It is important that I learn not to be “disobedient to the heavenly vision”Ðnot to doubt that it can be attained. It is not enough to give mental assent to the fact that God has redeemed the world, nor even to know that the Holy Spirit can make all that Jesus did a reality in my life. I must have the foundation of a personal relationship with Him. Paul was not given a message or a doctrine to proclaim. He was brought into a vivid, personal, overpowering relationship with Jesus Christ.Acts 26:16 is tremendously compelling “. . . to make you a minister and a witness . . . .” There would be nothing there without a personal relationship. Paul was devoted to a Person, not to a cause. He was absolutely Jesus Christ’s. He saw nothing else and he lived for nothing else. “For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified” (1 Corinthians 2:2).
from
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2436015/posts
We don't want to be like the blokes in the joke on the house top in the flood who resisted the canoe, the motor boat and the helicopter and complained that God didn't come for them.
This is a wonderful parable. With your permission, let me re-tell it.
The man had a conversation with God and concluded that he is from then on saved.So when the radio announced that there is going to be a flood, he said "I am fine. I am saved already."
The waters advanced and the neighbors knocked on his door. "Fast! we have room in our truck, let us help you evacuate". No, he said, I am saved already.
The roads became impassable and the police came in a boat. It is not too late to evacuate, they said, hop in the boat. "No" the man replied, "I know from God that I am saved already".
Finally, the Coast Guard dropped a ladder from a helicopter, as our man was sitting on the roof of his by now submerged house. Same result.
Next, the man drowned and went to heaven. "God", -- he said, -- "I admit I am a bit shaken in my faith. Didn't you tell me that I was saved? Yet, I drowned! And you, God, did nothing!" -- "Who do you think sent you the truck, the boat and the helicopter?", God replied.