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To: Forest Keeper; Mr Rogers; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights; RnMomof7; Gamecock
If God’s chief will is to have sons, not slaves, then he MUST give the potential sons the option of disobeying.

If we are sons of God, do we really want to be disobedient to God? Or would God truly want us to be disobedient to Him knowing it would bring about ruin and misery? Our will should be to do the will of the Father. Our failings to do His will only illustrates to us the mercy and grace of our God to pick us up and keep us going.

Indeed, if he wanted slaves, he could have skipped the Garden of Eden and the Fall altogether.

FK-your comment bears repeating- But He would rather have His children be slaves to righteousness with "A" will.

Kind of hard to argue that Cornelius did nothing approved of by God until AFTER conversion. God’s grace had sufficiently warned Cornelius that he was prepared to be saved. I suppose a PD would say that God had given Cornelius ‘saving grace’ already, or some such thing. But I think grace is grace.

People look at the redemption process as a one point in time experience. I would suggest it is actually a gradual experience. People may point to the Apostle Paul and say there was a point-in-time experience in which Paul came to know Christ. Yet Paul tells the Galatians he was chosen from the womb. So how would this square if Paul had simply made a choice. Paul never viewed his salvation that way.

The example of Abraham is much like the case of Cornelius except that God tells us at what points Abraham was justified. God tells Abraham to leave his country and Abraham does (Gen 12) all the while being under the protective care of God. Abraham gives Melchizedek a tenth of all he has and Melchizedek blesses him (Gen 14). God tells Abraham that he will make of him a great nation in which Abraham believes God AND AT THAT POINT was saved by faith (Gen 15, Rom 4). Abraham then goes on to be obedient to God by willing to sacrifice Isaac and is saved by his works (Gen 22, James). It is important to note Abraham was not saved by his offering to Melchizedek.

Like Abraham, when Cornelius prayed and gave alms I would place him in the same position as Abraham in Gen 14; which means that the scriptures are simply silent on what drove Cornelius to be devout which is documented of Abraham (Gen 12-13). According to scripture Abraham was not justified by faith until Gen 15 even though years and years had past. Does anyone really suppose that after the angel told Cornelius to send for Peter, there was a posibility that Cornelius could have kick-the-bucket within the three days it took Peter to get there?

Our salvation and sanctification process is a journey. It is a series of events brought about by God throughout our lives by God to give us to His Son (John 6:44, 6:65).

6,024 posted on 01/23/2010 3:12:37 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights; RnMomof7; Gamecock

“If we are sons of God, do we really want to be disobedient to God?”

Well, according to scripture, we ARE sons of God, yet we DO disobey...so either we disobey because we can, or God in his sovereign will requires us to disobey.

“Our will should be to do the will of the Father. Our failings to do His will only illustrates to us the mercy and grace of our God to pick us up and keep us going.”

Agreed.

“People look at the redemption process as a one point in time experience. I would suggest it is actually a gradual experience.”

I agree. And I think God is more concerned with bringing it to completion than in following a checklist. That is why I don’t worry if someone claims their baptism as an infant is good enough. I think they would do better to be baptized AFTER believing, but God doesn’t always follow the steps we expect. He does, however, finish what he starts.

However, I can find no scriptural basis for thinking we are born again by act of God prior to believing. Nor can I find an account of God giving belief as a gift to someone against their will.


6,073 posted on 01/23/2010 8:16:41 AM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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