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To: Mr Rogers

Lots of good reading here:

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html


4,461 posted on 01/18/2010 8:53:24 AM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski; Mr Rogers
" not ALL Jesus taught is in Scripture".

Catholics love to appeal to this scripture to prove tradition..but it is a false and weak argument..If there was something that God wanted contained in scripture, that was necessary for salvation ..it would have been there..

Once again please show us where Jesus ever taught from tradition to give us a pattern, as he did in prayer..

4,547 posted on 01/18/2010 12:45:13 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: Petronski; annalex

You recommended the following for good reading:

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html

I cannot agree. It has 3 sections. The first is “Scripture Alone Disproves “Scripture Alone”.

The first sentences in that section are below, with my comments in [].

Gen. to Rev. - Scripture never says that Scripture is the sole infallible authority for God’s Word. Scripture also mandates the use of tradition. This fact alone disproves sola Scriptura.

[I don’t think the writer knows what sola scriptura says. However, the infallible authority I can find in scripture would be scripture itself, the words of Jesus (found in scripture) and the teachings of the Apostles. If the teachings of the Apostles differed orally from what they wrote, show it. I’ll accept the authority of what the Apostles said - but then, we don’t have any reliable quotes from them outside of scripture. But if the Catholic Church has secret teachings, handed down from the Apostles, Bishop to Bishop whispered mouth to ear at ordination, feel free to reveal it.]

Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:15 - those that preached the Gospel to all creation but did not write the Gospel were not less obedient to Jesus, or their teachings less important.

[Of course not. So what teachings of the apostles differed or supplemented what they wrote? Has there been a 3 Peter laying hidden in the Vatican?]

Matt. 28:20 - “observe ALL I have commanded,” but, as we see in John 20:30; 21:25, not ALL Jesus taught is in Scripture. So there must be things outside of Scripture that we must observe. This disproves “Bible alone” theology.

[John 20:30. “30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book” Copy. Not every miracle (sign) done by Jesus was recorded.]

[John 21:25 “25Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.” Jesus did - not teachings of Jesus not covered. So what teachings did Jesus teach without record in scripture? And what is the evidence they were taught by Jesus?]

Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to “preach,” not write, and only three apostles wrote. The others who did not write were not less faithful to Jesus, because Jesus gave them no directive to write. There is no evidence in the Bible or elsewhere that Jesus intended the Bible to be sole authority of the Christian faith.

[There is no indication that Jesus expected everyone to write scripture. Not all of us are pastors, either, but that doesn’t mean we’ve disobeyed God. But neither does that have anything to do with sola scriptura. And Jesus taught with authority (we know because scripture tells us so) and cited scripture as authoritative. So...where does he cite tradition as authoritative?]

Luke 1:1-4 - Luke acknowledges that the faithful have already received the teachings of Christ, and is writing his Gospel only so that they “realize the certainty of the teachings you have received.” Luke writes to verify the oral tradition they already received.

[Most believe Luke was supplementing Mark’s Gospel, and Matthew’s. However, sola scriptura does NOT deny the oral authority of the Apostles...it says, “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone”. The foundation doesn’t get built forever. If you have a genuine Apostle or Prophet, let him prove himself, then preach. But ‘Doctors of the Church” aren’t mentioned, are they?]

John 20:30; 21:25 - Jesus did many other things not written in the Scriptures. These have been preserved through the oral apostolic tradition and they are equally a part of the Deposit of Faith.

[Jesus did, not Jesus taught. However, if you have evidence that Jesus taught his disciples something, and it has been passed down from 30 AD on, then share it. Remember, Paul taught the “whole counsel of God”, and Jude said the faith “was once for all delivered to the saints”. New stuff doesn’t count.]

Acts 8:30-31; Heb. 5:12 - these verses show that we need help in interpreting the Scriptures. We cannot interpret them infallibly on our own. We need divinely appointed leadership within the Church to teach us.

[These verses teach the value of a teacher or preacher...which are gifts still being exercised. It does NOT show we need infallible interpretation.]

While we’re on infallible interpretation, who infallibly interprets the church’s supposed infallible interpretation? And where is the infallible interpretation of scripture kept? Where is the Vatican Infallible Commentary on the Bible?

Because when I post comments found in the NAB posted on the Vatican website, annalex says the translation and comments are both worthless. How can the Infallible Church publish bad translations and bad commentary on its website?


4,698 posted on 01/18/2010 5:25:58 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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