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To: stfassisi
I have.. I just can't find the part where it says God created evil for the purpose of ordaining evil.

God ordained Herod and Pontius Pilate for the most horrific act of men in all time..the crucification of His son

Acts 2:Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God,ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

John 19:Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."

My Bible says God is all goodness and there is no darkness in Him God is light, and there is no darkness in Him, (I John i, 5) I will show thee all good (Exod. xxxiii, 19). Far from God impiety, and iniquity from the Almighty (Job xxxiv, 10).

So do you believe that God is helpless against evil, that he just has to watch it and hope it all turns out ok?Or maybe he just is not paying attention?

Does the calvinists god believe that God's goodness ordained and limited Hitler to Kill only 6 million Jews instead of more?

It does not matter what I believe it only matters what God says

Romans 13:Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Daniel 2:21 "It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings; He gives wisdom to wise men And knowledge to men of understanding.

Daniel 4:17 "This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchers And the decision is a command of the holy ones, In order that the living may know That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind, And bestows it on whom He wishes And sets over it the lowliest of men."

Pro 21;The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases.

"Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will includes even the sinful acts of men or then the scripture Romans 8:28 that God causes "all things to work together for good to them that love God" has no meaning of substance .

Augustine in his Enchiridion, Ch. 100:

'In a way unspeakably strange and wonderful, even what is done in opposition to God's will [of desire] does not defeat his will [of decree]. For it would not be done did he not permit it, and of course his permission is not unwilling, but willing; nor would a Good Being permit evil to be done except that in his omnipotence he can turn evil into good'.

2,919 posted on 01/14/2010 10:29:30 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: RnMomof7
God ordained Herod and Pontius Pilate for the most horrific act of men in all time..the crucification of His son,

These are all responses to free will decisions that God has known from all eternity seen as one NOW in the eyes of God,thus, evil has no attachment to God whatsoever

You're rationalizing evil as something God ordered and thus attaching evil to God as His plan in creation,but there can not be creation without there being love and goodness as a first cause of creation-that first cause of everything is love from God who is Love that can NOT have Evil in Him,thus a first cause is always good

This includes Adam and Eve etc..and so on

This fits perfectly with Scripture...

"Thou lovest all things that are, and hatest nothing of the things that Thou hast made "-Wisdom 11:25

It does not matter what I believe it only matters what God says ...

You're interpreting what God says wrong and placing God as incapable of creating everyone for goodness,thus making God the creator of evil who wills both evil and good-this is zeus god-not anything like Christ

From Blessed Thomas Aquinas...

That God cannot will Evil

EVERY act of God is an act of virtue, since His virtue is His essence .

2. The will cannot will evil except by some error coming to be in the reason, at least in the matter of the particular choice there and then made. For as the object of the will is good, apprehended as such, the will cannot tend to evil unless evil be somehow proposed to it as good; and that cannot be without error.* But in the divine cognition there can be no error. 3. God is the sovereign good, admitting no intermixture of evil. 4. Evil cannot befall the will except by its being turned away from its end. But the divine will cannot be turned away from its end, being unable to will except by willing itself . It cannot therefore will evil; and thus free will in it is naturally established in good. This is the meaning of the texts: God is faithful and without iniquity (Deut. xxxii, 4); Thine eyes are clean, O Lord, and thou canst not look upon iniquity (Hab. i, 13).

3,010 posted on 01/14/2010 1:43:09 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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