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To: HarleyD; Mr Rogers; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights; RnMomof7; Gamecock
The general call of the Gospel is made effective when the Holy Spirit makes the Word of God understood, appreciated and believed upon in the heart of an individual.

I can't help but wonder if this is a moment when an element of free will enters. I have no doubt God saves all He intends to save and knows from the beginning who the elect are.

However, the one unforgivable sin:

Matt. 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him either in this age, or in the age to come.

Is the speaking against the Holy Spirit resistance to regeneration? IOW, denying THE GOSPEL.

BTW, great post HD. I love it when a real discussion breaks out.

2,546 posted on 01/13/2010 8:36:43 AM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights; HarleyD
Is the speaking against the Holy Spirit resistance to regeneration? IOW, denying THE GOSPEL.

No, because true regeneration by the Holy Spirit cannot be resisted. If it could, there would be no such thing as "irresistible grace" and Arminius would be correct that men whom God calls to Him can deny Him what He wants.

But we know that if God has numbered someone to be one of the elect, that person will succumb to the persuasion of God at a time of God's choosing. It could not be otherwise, if God is sovereign.

IMO "speaking against the Holy Spirit" is to deny the Holy Spirit exists in others and in the world around us. Since it is the Holy Spirit who enlivens Scripture and makes it knowable then any proclamation of the Scriptures and God's truth is by the Holy Spirit, which we both know many people "resist" and for which they are rightly condemned.

2,553 posted on 01/13/2010 9:09:46 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: wmfights
In the parable of the seed Luke 8:4-21. The seed has to fall on "good ground", like garden soil, cultivated, prepared ground

Now this parable is this: the seed is the word of God. And those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they may not believe and be saved.

And those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

And the seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

And the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance

2,573 posted on 01/13/2010 10:44:16 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: wmfights
1 Peter 2:

8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

2,585 posted on 01/13/2010 11:33:38 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: wmfights
Matt. 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him either in this age, or in the age to come.

Is the speaking against the Holy Spirit resistance to regeneration? IOW, denying THE GOSPEL.

Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mar 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

2,589 posted on 01/13/2010 11:46:44 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: wmfights; Mr Rogers; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; RnMomof7; Gamecock; Alamo-Girl
I can't help but wonder if this is a moment when an element of free will enters.

BLASPHEMY!!!

Well, now I got that out of my system.

Repeat after me, there is no free will. There is only God's will and there is man's will. You are either doing God's will like obeying the commandments, or you are doing man's will like disobeying the commandments. (Yes Alamo-Girl, yours was one of the few posts I was able to read.)

Free will implies that you, on your own volition, can do something God would appreciate-some godly. Hence, you can save yourself by repenting. The scriptures teaches us that until we are saved we are bound by man's will. We simply do not have a desire to do the will of God. The Son must set us free from this predicament. He gives to us a new heart and spirit to allow us to have a desire to do God's will even though we are, by nature, wanting to do man's will.

Christians can do God's will by being guided and submissive to the Holy Spirit as Christ was. In this case we will be obedient to all the laws as Christ was. If we were completely submissive to being led by the Holy Spirit to do God's will, we WOULD fulfill all the laws and commandments. But this is God's will-NOT OUR FREE WILL. We don't have this capacity to be led by the Spirit 24/7 so we are still bound to do man's will from time to time. But over time this diminishes but never goes away. I'd like to emphasized that our Lord Jesus Christ was perfectly submissive to the will of God throughout His life. Where was His free will?

On the other hand Christians can do man's will. These are times when we are led by our lust and fleshy desires. God, being gracious and merciful, uses His "rod and His staff to guide us" to do His will and not the will of our flesh.

Free will implies before you are a Christian, you are totally capable of being obedient to God. This is not supported in scripture. Furthermore, after you become a Christian free will implies that YOU still are capable of doing something to please God. This is not the case either since we rest on the complete work of our Lord Jesus.

As far as what is blasphemy against the Spirit, I have yet to find a commentator that has given a clear definition. However, I would suggest probably the closest thing that comes to blasphemy is in Daniel 5 with the case of King Belshazzar. As you recall, the King held a great orgy and brought out the sacred vessels of the temple to degrade in their orgy. That was the end of King Belshazzar as he saw the handwriting on the wall. Did King B "freely" choose to blasphemy? No. He let his (man's) will go to extreme in cursing God. God doesn't tolerate it.

I'm also reminded of the case in 2 Kings 2 where Elisha was being made fun of by a bunch of children and he prayed to God. God sent two bears who devoured forty-two of the boys. God doesn't tolerate the insolence of men (or children).

All non-Christians can do is stiffle man's will such as the Philistines who decided it was better to send the ark of the covenant back with a sin offering then keep it in the house of Dagon (after God smashed their idol and inflicted them with tumors). We simply can't do godly things with man's will but we can be respectful. What pushes God over the edge, I'm not sure but I don't wish to find out. BTW-scripture tells us Christians can make God very unhappy so that He'll take them home. You might recall at one point God was ready to kill Moses.

I hate anecdotal evidence but several years ago a radio station want to do a raunchy skit. Two people decided that they would have sex in St. Patrick Cathedral and broadcast it over the air. This got them both arrested and when they went to arrange the guy, they found that he had died of a heart attack at the age of 32 and being in good health. You simply don't mess with God.

2,676 posted on 01/13/2010 4:58:13 PM PST by HarleyD
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