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To: annalex; xone; Quix; Dr. North
Thank you so much for your reply, dear brother in Christ!

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts about communities of faith that do not even claim the Real Presence? In most Protestant services that I visited, the words of Institution might be quoted, to be sure, but the minister quoting them does not believe nor does he teach that the bread becomes anything other than bread during the Last Supper ceremony he conducts.

Most of my brothers and sisters in Christ – regardless of the doctrines they accept – recognize the body of Christ in themselves and in each other.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. – I Cor 12:12-14

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. – I Cor 12:27

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. – Ephesians 5:30

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Colossians 1:15-20

But sadly some of my brothers and sisters in Christ look at one another through the lens of their own doctrinal roots and thus sometimes even disrespect other members of Christ's body:

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. – I Corinthians 3:1-7

Truly, we are alive with Christ in God even while yet in the flesh.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. - Colossians 3:3

And yet some behave as if they have not yet spiritually discerned that Truth and treat one another as if they both are merely fleshy animals, not realizing everything they do to one another and to themselves, they do to Christ.

These things I command you, that ye love one another. – John 15:7

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. – I John 4:8-9

No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. – I John 4:12-13

So if they would do this to one another, who are made sacred by the blood of Christ, His indwelling, His real presence – why would we be surprised if they would also extend their own doctrinal roots to disrespect the other things which God has made sacred, e.g. the words of God, the cup and the bread, Israel?

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are. – I Cor 3:16-17

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. – Matt 4:4

Give us this day our daily bread. – Matt 6:11

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. – Matthew 22:29

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. – John 1:1-4

I am that bread of life. – John 6:48

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63

Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. - Jer 31:37

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes. – Romans 11:25-28

And so I would say, the issue of discerning the body and blood of Christ - though certainly relevant to the cup and the bread - is a much larger issue and the larger sense is applicable to the warning given here:

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. - I Cor 11:28-30

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

1,062 posted on 01/09/2010 12:59:31 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

TRUE INDEED.

IIRC, Henry Wright’s church . . . once or twice a year or so takes a whole Saturday . . .

Everyone meets at the church for the whole Saturday. The Lord’s Supper is all day long.

Everyone goes around to everyone else—i.e. anyone they think may have had even slight occasion to be offended or anyone they feel even slightly offended toward—and clears it up and shars the bread and cup with each of those people.

It’s evidently a very powerful cleansing and healing day.


1,065 posted on 01/09/2010 1:10:23 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Alamo-Girl; xone; Quix; Dr. North

I agree that “discerning the body” also has that wider application, as discerning the need for social communion with one another as well as a spiritual communion with God. For that reason, as well as for the reasons of sacramental theology the Catholic Communion is closed to those who in their own spiritual home do not enjoy a valid Sacrament of the Eucharist; and it is open to those who do, like the Orthodox.

We do participate in wider social activities, such as ecumentical prayers, gatherings, festivals and so on. We are encouraged to visit other houses of worship and participate in things that do not contradict the Catholic faith, such as scripture readings.

However, the passage in 1 Cor 11 that is our view also has the narrow Eucharistic focus, because in it St. Paul directly mentions the literal and not metaphorical body of Christ delivered up for us. If he meant solely the discernment of the body of Christ which is the Church, he would not have referred to His passion. Neither in John 6 it is possible to substitute the Church for the flesh of Christ which is “food indeed”.


1,123 posted on 01/09/2010 3:35:03 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Beautifully stated, as always. All praise, glory and honor to Him!


1,190 posted on 01/09/2010 5:12:04 PM PST by boatbums (Pro-woman, pro-child, pro-life!)
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