Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?
I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?
This has already been explained to you.
There is no conflict.
Imagine insisting on dealing with the real world in other fields using only a grade-school textbook.
Ohh yes it is what it says
578 Jesus, Israel's Messiah and therefore the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, was to fulfill the Law by keeping it in its all embracing detail - according to his own words, down to "the least of these commandments".
330 He is in fact THE ONLY ONE (emphasis mine) who could keep it perfectly.
331 On their own admission the Jews were never able to observe the Law in its entirety without violating the least of its precepts.332 This is why every year on the Day of Atonement the children of Israel ask God's forgiveness for their transgressions of the Law. The Law indeed makes up one inseparable whole and St. James recalls, "Whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it
580 The perfect fulfillment of the Law could be the work of none but the divine legislator, born subject to the Law in the person of the Son.
So you can not huh??
330 As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will: they are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendor of their glory bears witness.190
The perfect fulfillment of the Law could be the work of none but the divine legislator, born subject to the Law in the person of the Son.337 In Jesus, the Law no longer appears engraved on tables of stone but "upon the heart" of the Servant who becomes "a covenant to the people", because he will "faithfully bring forth justice".338 Jesus fulfills the Law to the point of taking upon himself "the curse of the Law" incurred by those who do not "abide by the things written in the book of the Law, and do them", for his death took place to redeem them "from the transgressions under the first covenant".339
578 Jesus, Israel's Messiah and therefore the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, was to fulfill the Law by keeping it in its all embracing detail - according to his own words, down to "the least of these commandments".330 He is in fact the only one who could keep it perfectly.331 On their own admission the Jews were never able to observe the Law in its entirety without violating the least of its precepts.332 This is why every year on the Day of Atonement the children of Israel ask God's forgiveness for their transgressions of the Law. The Law indeed makes up one inseparable whole, and St. James recalls, "Whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it."333
This has already been explained to you. There is no conflict.
No it has not been "explained".. it has been danced around and lots of words thrown at it, but no one has explained how the Catholic church can state only Jesus could keep the whole law perfectly (be sinless) and yet teach that Mary was also sinless.. (kept the law perfectly)
Now you may hope people do not notice that it has not really been answered but my guess is people have noticed
578 Jesus, Israel's Messiah and therefore the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, was to fulfill the Law by keeping it in its all embracing detail - according to his own words, down to "the least of these commandments".330 He is in fact the only one who could keep it perfectly.331 On their own admission the Jews were never able to observe the Law in its entirety without violating the least of its precepts.332 This is why every year on the Day of Atonement the children of Israel ask God's forgiveness for their transgressions of the Law. The Law indeed makes up one inseparable whole, and St. James recalls, "Whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it."333
It makes my point thanks for re posting it
Mary is not part of the Trinity. The word "impeccable" does not appear in the Catechism, it describes Her as the "exemplary realization" of the Church.
Mad Dawg, you took this too personally, and sound as passionate as some Protest-ants.
>>an approach which arises when the community exalts itself, and effectively operates too independently of the Scriptures, and more autocratically, like the empire it was founded in.<<
>Catholic church was infected with imperial lust because it became legal to be Christian.
I did not imply that at all, and in fact i think that was an answered prayer for many, and a test, and in a previous post i indicated my sympathy in articulating the problems of separation. However, while the growth of the papacy was a processes, its continued rule over those without, as well as its use of the sword of men to enforce adherence to spiritual doctrines, was unBiblical, and for whatever motive. The result was a type of a Caesario-Papacy, with Boniface VIII even claiming “It is I who am Caesar; the Sovereign Pontiff is the only King of the Romans”, as he rode thru the city, carrying sword, globe and sceptre. (”Rome and its story”, p. 241, by Welbore St. Clair Baddeley, Lina Duff Gordon) Live on CNN!
>I think the size and age of the Church and the diversity of her culture make it hard for anyone but especially for Protestants and other non-Catholics (am I religiously correct or what?) to understand her accurately.<
I was Catholic, and remained within it for approx 6 years, serving as a lector and CCD teacher, sincerely wanting to serve God, and sought life (and found some) in Charismatic groups, and understand even more now of her size and diversity, and culture (i was raised, and live in the midst of one of the most Catholic states). And i am not imagining Rome was built in a day, but the papacy and power and the carnal power it relied upon cannot be derived from Scripture and is contrary to it, and i have already explained somewhat what this relates to (Inquisitions, etc.) and can get into more details, and it does not simply apply to Rome.
>It is sometimes good for some clerics to have the trappings of power and high status.<
Not necessarily wrong, though i don’t think you are thinking of Billy Graham in the White house, but how it is used, for what purpose, is key.
>If they really want to wear gold lamé, well, it’s not to my taste, but I’m tolerant.<
I think Peter would sell it, or use it as an investment against the dollar. The Wailing Wall Street Journal.
>We are portrayed as somehow slavishly looking to our clergy for guidance in personal hygiene.<
That is a result of RC apologists denying the validity of obtaining any doctrinal certitude by us checking things out by the Scriptures, and asserting that only by the infallible magisterium can this be obtained. Yet among Catholics, who are portrayed as being unified, this reliance is little manifest, as my stats evidence thus you might wish they did look to Rome more. Where is the Inquisition when you need it? I also showed where Catholics can have some types and degrees of dissent.
>Do we KNOW when they rejected the “Shepherd of Hermas” or how Revelation made it into the canon?<
Whatever made the saints best sellers list and stayed up there the most? Basically. One can decree what they will, and if they discern what is copyrighted by God then all the better. But as what makes a classic is its staying power, apart from compulsion, and in a competitive market, so it was and is the inherent power of the inspired writings themselves, as manifest among them that love the manna from heaven, that resulted in their confirmed codification as Scripture. For most books there was little controversy, while the place of the Apocrypha was not settled among Catholics until Trent’s formal ratification of the list of Florence, and the Apocryphal books yet remain relatively obscure among most. (Thread is dying: need more controversy) As for other books, despite the popularity of Da vinci code conspiratorialists, and the availability of such books as that of Enoch (is it 40’ or 400’ giants?), since the invention of the printing press, and the Reformation and wider literacy, it is certain these fail to meet the standard of Scripture.
>And as to the “unanimous consensus of the Fathers,” or whatever the phrase is, it’s not like they missed that Tertullian went off the rails or that there was disagreement...there were differences of opinion early on, as in Acts<
True, but again, the point was, for a supreme agency to use unanimous, where general might be closer, is a stretch. Not being permitted to “interpret the Sacred Scripture contrary to...the unanimous consent of the Fathers”, requires more than the facts might. But Manning basically would respond, be nor faithless, but believing in Rome.
The problem with reconciling UC with the facts became more problematic later one, and resulted in the theory of development of doctrine being more developed. Already too long now.
The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin."was . . . preserved." Passive tense. Not by her doing, but by Christ's salvific work on the Cross.
Your atrocious formatting made a repost necessary.
And??? so what??
Does the church teach she is sinless or not?
BTW I do not much care if your catechism has the word in it, the question is , is that an attribute of God/Christ?
S: (n) faultlessness, impeccability (the quality of being without an error or fault)
S: (n) impeccability (the quality of being exempt from sin or incapable of sinning)
I would say that defines God, and lists as one of His Incommunicable” attributes
Clarification: “I was Catholic, and remained within it for approx 6 years,” I mean there after i was born again!
But then she lived a SINLESS LIFE ....she kept the whole law perfectly correct?? JUST LIKE JESUS
Praise God Brother..
The Catholic Church does not teach that Mary is sinless by her own doing or her own power. It only by a singular grace of God that she was preserved sinless.
Of course I can, as well as the entire mass in Latin, both the priests part and the altar server (my part). I n also navigate pretty well through and understand the actual Catechism of the Catholic Church, can you?
Yes.
....she kept the whole law perfectly correct?? JUST LIKE JESUS
NO, not just like Jesus.
By whose power is Jesus Christ sinless? By His Own power.
By whose power is Mary preserved from sin? By God's power: the grace of God Almighty.
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