Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[Petronski]

Jesus did not pray for all men, why would you think He died for all men???

John 3:16-7

[Cronos]

Mary did not die but was assumed, body and soul, into heaven, Just as Enoch and Elijah. Christ, by his own power, ascended into Heaven, while His Mother, Mary was assumed/taken up into heaven by God. She did not do this under her own power.

in Revelations we read of a "woman clothed with the sun," thought to be Mary in ancient Christian Scriptural interpretation. If this interpretation is true, then St. John attests to Mary's presence in heaven, body and soul

[RnMomof7]

God revealed himself to Cain, very explicitly, yet Cain turned away. Rahab the prostitute wasn’t one of the “Chosen People”, but she believed - and was an ancestor of Jesus Christ.

God sent Cain away..as for Rahab she was indeed chosen by God.. As we read the Old Testament we see God saving gentiles.. Two that jump out are Ruth and Rahab.. the only 2 women named in the lineage of Jesus both Gentiles..

[RnMomof7]

However, the Jews in Acts 2 were stricken to the heart BEFORE being saved, and asked, “Brothers, what shall we do?”.
The Philippian jailer asked, “What must I do to be saved?”

You make our point.. They asked because of Gods grace to them

God grace acts on our heart and our will and we THEN seek God

[Cronos]

So once the change has been made from "Vatican approved website" to "website by an alleged member of a Vatican approved group" the former expression is deleted from the record, and it is considered bad taste to bring it up.

Also, they forget abou t things like links to VANITY blogs posted as proof!!

[Quix]

We've been backwards and forwards over that interpretation.

Wholesale does NOT fit the whole counsel of Scripture.

One doesn't just need a shoehorn to fit Scriptures into that notion, one needs a whole espionage type skull duggary factory to manipulate the Scriptures and the history into such a crazy notion.

[MarkBsnr]

“Ex-Jewish mystics called Crystal” can be Roman Catholic, too.

More claims without proofs? Some of the regular FR posters are expert.

[Mad Dawg]

My understanding is that in the Western tradition she may have died, but in that case her body was assumed pretty soon afterwards.

[Mr Rogers]

I make YOUR point? Calvinists tell me we must be born again BEFORE we can repent, or believe. Yet these men, prior to salvation, are responding to God’s revelation, and are being told to repent and believe if they would be saved.

That isn’t monergism.

[Mr Rogers]

BTW - who is saying we seek God out on our own?

[Mad Dawg]

Wholesale does NOT fit the whole counsel of Scripture.

Finally it comes down to how we respond to what Scripture says about the Church. We all see the same texts and respond to them differently.

[Quix]

imho,

you are likely quite right.

LUB

[Quix]

HOW’S YOUR BREATHING????

[RnMomof7]

The question is who will believe? And WHAT will they believe ??

Are Mormons saved?? They believe? What about the JW's ? They believe ??What about the Muslims? They believe?

Scripture says no man seeks God.. What men often believe is a god of their own making and not the God of the Bible?
Are they part of the all?

Jesus tells us WHO will believe

John 6: 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

.. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father
. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

So Jesus narrowed who would believe and come to those the Father draw

John 17: 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine

[Petronski]

Are Mormons saved??

That's for God to decide.

What about the JW's ?

That's for God to decide.

What about the Muslims?

That's for God to decide.

None are excluded from the opportunity to be saved.

No cosmic lottery. No sick, twisted manmade god crafted by Calvin in his own twisted image.

[wmfights]

We've been backwards and forwards over that interpretation.

Who wrote The Revelation of Jesus Christ?

Who was given the responsibility to care for Mary?

Who was the last Apostle to die?

Who would have known of any supernatural events, or abilities, pertaining to Mary after the Crucifixion?

Who never wrote about Mary even though all the above applies to him?

The answer: John

When confronted with truth RC's can repent or seek refuge in the RCC. I would run to Jesus, but that's just me.

[Mad Dawg]

Quite good, thank you.

I just took my Subaru out in the snow so we could sneer at other people in lesser vehicles, and despite its being in the teens, I did not immediately curl up into a ball of coughs and wheezes.

An old friend from Annapolis who does NOT have asthma described a course very like mine. So now we have an enigma, and no diagnosis again.

Tra la.

Hows’ yer mouf?

[Forest Keeper]

FK: Would you then say that everything in the rest of the Catechism is right because it 1. matches the higher authority of scripture, OR, 2 would you say that everything in the rest of the Catechism is correct because the authors of the Catechism were inspired just like the authors of the Bible were?

I like 1. I do NOT like 2. This is where shades come in (and also my ignorance) but I think our language about the magisterium is "protected from error," as distinct from "inspired." FWIW

OK, thanks. That makes a big difference to me and helps to clear up what some others were saying. From my reading of the Catechism the Catholic Church seems to put the scriptures in its own category, not on a same level with later writings. I don't know if the concept of "holy" would come into play here. I don't know if the Catechism is considered to be holy in its own right.

[Cronos]

And so they thought it would just be WAY too far to sail West to Cathay.

Ahem... he wanted to get to India, not Cathay! And also to meet up with Pastor John too and form an alliance against the MuslimOttomans

[Cronos]

You can compare the act of deception of Eve to the willfulness of sin of Adam. Adam was the ONLY one who could will himself against God. His race has passed into this bondage. Christ was the ONLY one would could redeem us by willfully following God

I'm not sure if this was your point or not, but do you then say that Adam used his free will and that we have our free will to choose or not choose God's grace?