Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?
I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?
This lovely watchband from Spiedel ...
One day, after a particularly amusing morning in the county General District Court, as the people were filing out the judge (one of my favorite people on earth), looked up and said, "And thanks for playing our game!"
I hate to admit I don’t own a D-R. How to they translate Col 1:24?
Yes, a link to a Latin-English dictionary, where you can learn that Imprimatur is a Latin--not English--word.
As the ninja nuns, wielding rulers WITH metal edges, instruct their charges in "empty-hand" Catholic Close quarters battle.
“Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church”
While you're trying to be cute, you apparently don't realize that the earliest church fathers almost exclusively quoted the texts that were used to later construct the KJV...One might say they used the KJV in the original Greek...
Am I trying to be cute? Interesting thought.
The KJV. Where was it constructed from? http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html says that:
Fifteen general rules were advanced for the guidance of the translators:
1. The ordinary Bible read in the Church, commonly called the Bishops Bible, to be followed, and as little altered as the Truth of the original will permit.
2. The names of the Prophets, and the Holy Writers, with the other Names of the Text, to be retained, as nigh as may be, accordingly as they were vulgarly used.
3. The Old Ecclesiastical Words to be kept, viz. the Word Church not to be translated Congregation &c.
4. When a Word hath divers Significations, that to be kept which hath been most commonly used by the most of the Ancient Fathers, being agreeable to the Propriety of the Place, and the Analogy of the Faith.
5. The Division of the Chapters to be altered, either not at all, or as little as may be, if Necessity so require.
6. No Marginal Notes at all to be affixed, but only for the explanation of the Hebrew or Greek Words, which cannot without some circumlocution, so briefly and fitly be expressed in the Text.
7. Such Quotations of Places to be marginally set down as shall serve for the fit Reference of one Scripture to another.
8. Every particular Man of each Company, to take the same Chapter or Chapters, and having translated or amended them severally by himself, where he thinketh good, all to meet together, confer what they have done, and agree for their Parts what shall stand.
9. As any one Company hath dispatched any one Book in this Manner they shall send it to the rest, to be considered of seriously and judiciously, for His Majesty is very careful in this Point.
10. If any Company, upon the Review of the Book so sent, doubt or differ upon any Place, to send them Word thereof; note the Place, and withal send the Reasons, to which if they consent not, the Difference to be compounded at the general Meeting, which is to be of the chief Persons of each Company, at the end of the Work.
11. When any Place of special Obscurity is doubted of, Letters to be directed by Authority, to send to any Learned Man in the Land, for his Judgement of such a Place.
12. Letters to be sent from every Bishop to the rest of his Clergy, admonishing them of this Translation in hand; and to move and charge as many skilful in the Tongues; and having taken pains in that kind, to send his particular Observations to the Company, either at Westminster, Cambridge, or Oxford.
13. The Directors in each Company, to be the Deans of Westminster, and Chester for that Place; and the King's Professors in the Hebrew or Greek in either University.
14. These translations to be used when they agree better with the Text than the Bishops Bible: Tyndale's, Matthew's, Coverdale's, Whitchurch's, Geneva.
15. Besides the said Directors before mentioned, three or four of the most Ancient and Grave Divines, in either of the Universities, not employed in Translating, to be assigned by the vice-Chancellor, upon Conference with the rest of the Heads, to be Overseers of the Translations as well Hebrew as Greek, for the better observation of the 4th Rule above specified.
The work began to take shape in 1604 and progressed steadily. The translators expressed their early thoughts in their preface as:
"Truly (good Christian Reader) we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one,...but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principal good one, not justly to be excepted against, that hath been our endeavor."
They had at their disposal all the previous English translations to which they did not disdain:
"We are so far off from condemning any of their labors that travailed before us in this kind, either in this land or beyond sea, either in King Henry's time, or King Edward's...or Queen Elizabeth's of ever renowned memory, that we acknowledge them to have been raised up of God, for the building and furnishing of his Church, and that they deserve to be had of us and of posterity in everlasting remembrance."
And, as the translators themselves also acknowledged, they had a multitude of sources from which to draw from: "Neither did we think much to consult the Translators or Commentators, CHaldee, Hebrew, Syrian, Greek, or Latin, no nor the Spanish, French, Italian, or Dutch." The Greek editions of Erasmus, Stephanus, and Beza were all accessible, as were the COmplutensian and Antwerp Polyglots, and the Latin translations of Pagninus, Termellius, and Beza.
Notice, please dear reader, rule 14. That alone puts the lie to idea that the KJV was a new, literal and faithful translation.
I don't know what you mean by self generating but I do believe God when ye said he would preserve his words, forever...That would be the original writings of the Prophets and the Apostles...
We don't have the original writings of the Prophets and the Apostles. We have nothing written by any of them, only copies of copies of copies... much like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy, only with human editing for each copy. Where did God say that He would preserve His Words forever and in what context?
The fact that your Jerome made up 50 of his own version to give to Constantine means nothing to me...
50 of his own version? What does this mean in English?
Now, let's see. Jerome was commissioned by Pope Damasus in 382 to translate the Bible into Latin from Greek. Constantine died in 337. The fact that Constantine died 10 years before Jerome was even born doesn't faze you when making statements like this? Iscool, I really really like your posts. You get it so wrong and so badly wrong on such a consistent basis, it's easy for the lurkers to understand that the antiCatholic sentiment out there is simply ludicrous.
Sure, your religion created it's own versions of God's word, but it didn't create mine...
I don't have a religion. Where do you think that your Bible (whichever one it is) came from? What was the process by which the printed English words on the page were defined?
That's right...It's just a meaningless book
Only to the pagan. To the Christian it is Scripture.
You guys can keep your various false religions and I'll keep on believing and reading the book...The scriptures that Jesus gave me...
Do you have the UPS bill of lading when it was delivered to your house that you can scan and post on this thread? I'd be interested in the return address. Was it Jesus; Throne of God; Heaven; 000001? But why did you steal the name Christian out of my book??? It doesn't belong to anyone other than those who believe the book came from Jesus...
No, Christian is reserved for those who believe in Christ. Biblian is the title for those who believe in a book.
It's interesting you tell us the scriptures are not sufficient...But your catechism is...What are the scriptures not sufficient for???
Belief in God. The Catechism is the explanation for Scripture. If you do not have the Catechism, then your explanation might as well come out of a hat. Or some orifice.
The Presbyterians already have most of a female coven in the ten closest Presbyterian churches to my house, plus the bishop. A couple of subpastors, and stoke up the bonfire in the forest.
KJV:
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up what is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church.
I think you would be hard pressed to say that the essense of the D-R is different from the KJV.
I think the guys doing the KJV saw what the Greek said and in conflicted with their theology so they produced “what is behind” to obscure it. That’s why I asked about the DR, because the plain meaning of Scripture is less scandalous to Catholics than to Protestants.
"To that old, rugged Cross
"I will ever be true
Its shame and reproach gladly bear.
Then He'll call me someday
To His Home, far away
Where His Glory forever I'll share....
So I'll cherish the old, rugged Cross
****************************
It's not theology, just heart-wrenching music.
Here's another one:
Jesus, keep me near the Cross,
There a precious fountain
Free to all, a healing stream
Flows from Calvary's fountain.
In the Cross, In the Cross
Be my glory, ever
Till my raptured* soul shall find
Rest, beyond the river...
*raptured, to me means taken up to Christ after death. Whatever it means to somebody else, immaterial to me. Now I suppose I'll be said to mangle the theology of hymns...
Thanks.
Gladly, the cross-eyed bear?
That's how they supposedly tell them apart in Glasgow. I kid you not.
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