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Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?
Me

Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience

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To: Mr Rogers

LOL.


4,521 posted on 01/18/2010 11:00:17 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: betty boop
That's the edition I have too. However, it is superceded.

The errata (editio typica) are not included. The second edition has the editio typica baked right in.

At $13, I suspect I'll be getting one soon.

4,522 posted on 01/18/2010 11:00:37 AM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Mad Dawg

INDEED.

Including the worst of us.


4,523 posted on 01/18/2010 11:01:26 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Alamo-Girl; Mr Rogers; Mad Dawg; Natural Law; annalex; RnMomof7
Whether daffodil or man, a particular DNA is the message which describes what/who the living thing specifically “is” or was. When that message is no longer being communicated, the thing is dead even though the message itself survives....

This is such a profound insight, dearest sister in Christ. It rings with clarity for me, too!

Thank you so very much for your outstanding essay/post!

4,524 posted on 01/18/2010 11:03:08 AM PST by betty boop (Malevolence wears the false face of honesty. — Tacitus)
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To: betty boop
Thank you so much for your encouragements, dearest sister in Christ, and thank you for the reference information for your copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
4,525 posted on 01/18/2010 11:10:28 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop

THANKS TONS for your kind reply.


4,526 posted on 01/18/2010 11:10:51 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: betty boop

I agree.


4,527 posted on 01/18/2010 11:12:22 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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Comment #4,528 Removed by Moderator

To: Quix; Mad Dawg
Folks who feel so free to slice and dice my heart and spirit in the bloodiest ways so eagerly at the drop of a hat day in day out month in month out . . . year in year out . . .

And you have been so gentle, regarding our Church faith...thank you for all the kind rhetoric you have dispensed for the good of our Catholic souls...

"Never. The less." /Katherine Hepburn, "African Queen"

Let anyone who wishes to whine about eating the food he has prepared for others and served up on big blue fon...er, typ...er, bowls, do so.

But for the sake of your eternal salvation, I beg you to repent of your malediction. As you claim to be loving, so do I. May God grant you all graces, forever, I pray in Christ's Holy Name.

I'm finished for the time being.

4,529 posted on 01/18/2010 11:16:15 AM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Forest Keeper; wmfights; HarleyD; blue-duncan; Mr Rogers; the_conscience; RnMomof7; Gamecock; ...
CALVIN: I say therefore that he sins against the Holy Spirit who, while so constrained by the power of divine truth that he cannot plead ignorance, yet deliberately resists, and that merely for the sake of resisting.

Feel better soon, Harley. Drink lots of fluids.

The great thing about Calvin is that he knew men were not stupid. OTC, men are devious, arrogant, stubborn and self-deceived. So here Calvin reiterates the Scriptural truth that men are "without excuse."

"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" -- Romans 1:19-22

Earlier Paul tells us God's judgment on this willful disobedience...

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" -- Romans 1:18

And who "...hold(s) the truth in unrighteousness"?

All men, unless and until they are given the righteousness of Christ mercifully and freely imputed to them, according to the purpose ordained by God from before the foundation of the world.

All men were made in the image of God, and all men are stained with the sin of Adam's fall from grace. However the reality of the Triune God's existence and majesty is so self-evident that men's fallen human nature must be depraved indeed still to deny His Lordship over all, and to be ungrateful for all He's given us.

It's like Satan. Satan knows God is God. He knows God created him and all existence. But Satan does not glorify, worship nor show gratitude to God. Even Satan is without excuse.

So in the excerpt from Calvin we don't find a loophole for perseverence of the saints. We see Calvin repeating Paul's teaching that unless God grabs hold of us and knocks us to the ground to wake us from our death sleep of self-worship to permit us to actualy believe and love the truth and be grateful for it, we will be left with our own corrupted egos, freely enjoying our rebuke of God's active presence on earth by the working of the Holy Spirit.

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." -- Romans 1:28-32

Without God's free grace and the new birth by the Holy Spirit, men are left in their fallen state, given over to a reprobate mind which actually enjoys its disobedience.

And adding the tag that goes without saying for Mr. Rogers, God is the first cause of who will believe. God names His family not because to their own good work of faith; but for His good pleasure alone He covers them by the good work of Christ, giving us faith in He who "will do it."

"Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." -- 1 Thess. 5:24

Perseverence of the saints is also addressed when Calvin highlights Augustine...

The definition which Augustine somewhere gives, - viz., that it is obstinate perverseness, with distrust of pardon, continued till death, - scarcely agrees with the words of Christ, that it shall not be forgiven in this world. For either this is said in vain, or it may be committed in this world. But if Augustine's definition is correct, the sin is not committed unless persisted in till death.

"...sin is not committed unless persisted till death."

Wow. What greater declaration of POTS? Contrary to papist teaching that says each sin is weighed, measured and eternally scars us, Calvin and Augustine recall Paul's teaching that the children of God have already been acquitted of their sins by Christ on the cross.

Thus at a time of God's choosing the children of God will repent and believe before they die, while the reprobate will languish in the love of their disobedience and their willful denial of the work of the Holy Spirit unto the grave.

And that fact gives us astounding hope for all men everywhere and leads us to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth.

4,530 posted on 01/18/2010 11:44:20 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Forest Keeper; wmfights; HarleyD; blue-duncan; Mr Rogers; the_conscience; RnMomof7; Gamecock; ...
CALVIN: I say therefore that he sins against the Holy Spirit who, while so constrained by the power of divine truth that he cannot plead ignorance, yet deliberately resists, and that merely for the sake of resisting.

Feel better soon, Harley. Drink lots of fluids.

The great thing about Calvin is that he knew men were not stupid. OTC, men are devious, arrogant, stubborn and self-deceived. So here Calvin reiterates the Scriptural truth that men are "without excuse."

"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" -- Romans 1:19-22

Earlier Paul tells us God's judgment on this willful disobedience...

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" -- Romans 1:18

And who "...hold(s) the truth in unrighteousness"?

All men, unless and until they are given the righteousness of Christ mercifully and freely imputed to them, according to the purpose ordained by God from before the foundation of the world.

All men were made in the image of God, and all men are stained with the sin of Adam's fall from grace. However the reality of the Triune God's existence and majesty is so self-evident that men's fallen human nature must be depraved indeed still to deny His Lordship over all, and to be ungrateful for all He's given us.

It's like Satan. Satan knows God is God. He knows God created him and all existence. But Satan does not glorify, worship nor show gratitude to God. Even Satan is without excuse.

So in the excerpt from Calvin we don't find a loophole for perseverence of the saints. We see Calvin repeating Paul's teaching that unless God grabs hold of us and knocks us to the ground to wake us from our death sleep of self-worship to permit us to actualy believe and love the truth and be grateful for it, we will be left with our own corrupted egos, freely enjoying our rebuke of God's active presence on earth by the working of the Holy Spirit.

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." -- Romans 1:28-32

Without God's free grace and the new birth by the Holy Spirit, men are left in their fallen state, given over to a reprobate mind which actually enjoys its disobedience.

And adding the tag that goes without saying for Mr. Rogers, God is the first cause of who will believe. God names His family not because to their own good work of faith; but for His good pleasure alone He covers them by the good work of Christ, giving us faith in He who "will do it."

"Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." -- 1 Thess. 5:24

Perseverence of the saints is also addressed when Calvin highlights Augustine...

The definition which Augustine somewhere gives, - viz., that it is obstinate perverseness, with distrust of pardon, continued till death, - scarcely agrees with the words of Christ, that it shall not be forgiven in this world. For either this is said in vain, or it may be committed in this world. But if Augustine's definition is correct, the sin is not committed unless persisted in till death.

"...sin is not committed unless persisted till death."

Wow. What greater declaration of POTS? Contrary to papist teaching that says each sin is weighed, measured and eternally scars us, Calvin and Augustine recall Paul's teaching that the children of God have already been acquitted of their sins by Christ on the cross.

Thus at a time of God's choosing the children of God will repent and believe before they die, while the reprobate will languish in the love of their disobedience and their willful denial of the work of the Holy Spirit unto the grave.

And that fact gives us astounding hope for all men everywhere and leads us to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth.

4,531 posted on 01/18/2010 11:49:12 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Forest Keeper; wmfights; HarleyD; blue-duncan; Mr Rogers; the_conscience; RnMomof7; Gamecock; ...
CALVIN: I say therefore that he sins against the Holy Spirit who, while so constrained by the power of divine truth that he cannot plead ignorance, yet deliberately resists, and that merely for the sake of resisting.

Feel better soon, Harley. Drink lots of fluids.

The great thing about Calvin is that he knew men were not stupid. OTC, men are devious, arrogant, stubborn and self-deceived. So here Calvin reiterates the Scriptural truth that men are "without excuse."

"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" -- Romans 1:19-22

Earlier Paul tells us God's judgment on this willful disobedience...

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" -- Romans 1:18

And who "...hold(s) the truth in unrighteousness"?

All men, unless and until they are given the righteousness of Christ mercifully and freely imputed to them, according to the purpose ordained by God from before the foundation of the world.

All men were made in the image of God, and all men are stained with the sin of Adam's fall from grace. However the reality of the Triune God's existence and majesty is so self-evident that men's fallen human nature must be depraved indeed still to deny His Lordship over all, and to be ungrateful for all He's given us.

It's like Satan. Satan knows God is God. He knows God created him and all existence. But Satan does not glorify, worship nor show gratitude to God. Even Satan is without excuse.

So in the excerpt from Calvin we don't find a loophole for perseverence of the saints. We see Calvin repeating Paul's teaching that unless God grabs hold of us and knocks us to the ground to wake us from our death sleep of self-worship to permit us to actualy believe and love the truth and be grateful for it, we will be left with our own corrupted egos, freely enjoying our rebuke of God's active presence on earth by the working of the Holy Spirit.

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." -- Romans 1:28-32

Without God's free grace and the new birth by the Holy Spirit, men are left in their fallen state, given over to a reprobate mind which actually enjoys its disobedience.

And adding the tag that goes without saying for Mr. Rogers, God is the first cause of who will believe. God names His family not because to their own good work of faith; but for His good pleasure alone He covers them by the good work of Christ, giving us faith in He who "will do it."

"Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." -- 1 Thess. 5:24

Perseverence of the saints is also addressed when Calvin highlights Augustine...

The definition which Augustine somewhere gives, - viz., that it is obstinate perverseness, with distrust of pardon, continued till death, - scarcely agrees with the words of Christ, that it shall not be forgiven in this world. For either this is said in vain, or it may be committed in this world. But if Augustine's definition is correct, the sin is not committed unless persisted in till death.

"...sin is not committed unless persisted till death."

Wow. What greater declaration of POTS? Contrary to papist teaching that says each sin is weighed, measured and eternally scars us, Calvin and Augustine recall Paul's teaching that the children of God have already been acquitted of their sins by Christ on the cross.

Thus at a time of God's choosing the children of God will repent and believe before they die, while the reprobate will languish in the love of their disobedience and their willful denial of the work of the Holy Spirit unto the grave.

And that fact gives us astounding hope for all men everywhere and leads us to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth.

4,532 posted on 01/18/2010 11:50:37 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Petronski; Alamo-Girl; Quix; Mr Rogers; Mad Dawg; Natural Law; annalex; RnMomof7
Thanks so much for the update, Petronski! I gather Pope John Paul II officially promulgated the editio typica in September, 1997. This on-line edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church has the editio typica "baked right in," as you say! This text should be "the latest and greatest...."
4,533 posted on 01/18/2010 11:51:36 AM PST by betty boop (Malevolence wears the false face of honesty. — Tacitus)
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To: Mad Dawg
So much does God love us.

And more; infinitely more.

4,534 posted on 01/18/2010 11:54:28 AM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: All

Ah, nuts. Why is it always the long ones that get double-posted? Mea culpa.


4,535 posted on 01/18/2010 11:55:45 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Quix
I appreciate your exhortation.

Thank you. Perhaps you can return the favour when I'm next, shall we say, out of sorts?

4,536 posted on 01/18/2010 11:56:01 AM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

In this case, triple posted. But who’s counting? :)


4,537 posted on 01/18/2010 11:57:48 AM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

I hit the abuse button on myself to ask the Mod to delete my duplicate, incomplete post 4528 at his/her convenience.


4,538 posted on 01/18/2010 12:07:00 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Judith Anne

Self-abuse, eh? Not sure any of the churches represented here would approve of that....


4,539 posted on 01/18/2010 12:11:11 PM PST by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: Hegewisch Dupa

ROFL! ;-D


4,540 posted on 01/18/2010 12:12:18 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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