Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[Natural Law]

"Here is a short list (and incomplete) list of things that Protestants don't agree on, perhaps you could tell me why they are "non essential":"

You forgot Justification.

[Forest Keeper]

Good grief! Now I'm a thousand posts behind. Sheesh! :)

[RnMomof7]

AWWWW I wanted 3,000

[wagglebee]

That’s why I said it was incomplete. Most Protestants tend to ignore the fact that they often are in more complete agreement with Catholicism than they are with each other.

[RnMomof7]

We are not talking about protestants we are talking about the saved , elect child of God...
and what I said was those truly born again agree on all biblical doctrine necessary for salvation..

Geee 1/2 of the Catholics do not even accept one of your biggies..the real presence

[RnMomof7]

and your PROOF of apostolic succession is???

[wagglebee]

We are not talking about protestants we are talking about the saved , elect child of God...

As determined by whom?

and what I said was those truly born again agree on all biblical doctrine necessary for salvation..

So, you won't even address those points I listed? Are you claiming that ALL of the Saved are in COMPLETE AGREEMENT on the following?:

- The Holy Trinity
- The Real Presence
- Confession and Absolution
- Infant Baptism
- Nestorianism
- Free will
- Ordination of women
- Sanctity of life
- Homosexuality

[wagglebee]

Geee 1/2 of the Catholics do not even accept one of your biggies..the real presence

Do you have a source for this or is it just a guess?

[RnMomof7]

God not man, and not the pope

There are as many lost Protestants as there are Catholics

[stfassisi]

God ordained Herod and Pontius Pilate for the most horrific act of men in all time..the crucification of His son,

These are all responses to free will decisions that God has known from all eternity seen as one NOW in the eyes of God,thus, evil has no attachment to God whatsoever

You're rationalizing evil as something God ordered and thus attaching evil to God as His plan in creation,but there can not be creation without there being love and goodness as a first cause of creation-that first cause of everything is love from God who is Love that can NOT have Evil in Him,thus a first cause is always good

This includes Adam and Eve etc..and so on

This fits perfectly with Scripture...

"Thou lovest all things that are, and hatest nothing of the things that Thou hast made "-Wisdom 11:25

It does not matter what I believe it only matters what God says ...

You're interpreting what God says wrong and placing God as incapable of creating everyone for goodness,thus making God the creator of evil who wills both evil and good-this is zeus god-not anything like Christ

From Blessed Thomas Aquinas...

That God cannot will Evil

EVERY act of God is an act of virtue, since His virtue is His essence .

2. The will cannot will evil except by some error coming to be in the reason, at least in the matter of the particular choice there and then made. For as the object of the will is good, apprehended as such, the will cannot tend to evil unless evil be somehow proposed to it as good; and that cannot be without error.* But in the divine cognition there can be no error. 3. God is the sovereign good, admitting no intermixture of evil. 4. Evil cannot befall the will except by its being turned away from its end. But the divine will cannot be turned away from its end, being unable to will except by willing itself . It cannot therefore will evil; and thus free will in it is naturally established in good. This is the meaning of the texts: God is faithful and without iniquity (Deut. xxxii, 4); Thine eyes are clean, O Lord, and thou canst not look upon iniquity (Hab. i, 13).

[RnMomof7]

“What would you say if I told you that only 30% of modern Catholics believe in the Real Presence? Well, it’s true. A mere 30% of Catholics today believe that the sacrament of Holy Communion is actually Jesus, the Son of God. Many think, “Oh, sure, it’s a symbol of God”. But, no, it’s the real thing. Christ instituted the sacrament of Holy Communion in order to remain with us until the end of time (Jn 14:18). He intended us to believe in Him and, doing so, eat His Body and drink His Blood so that our life would be eternal. If we do not believe, we are not fulfilling His plan. Furthermore, the deeper our trust in this Presence, the more surely we will be saved; the more surely we will be sanctified; and the more effectively — beyond our wildest dreams” -
Catholic forums

I used to have the actual survey from a Catholic college on my old computer...but this is from Catholic answers

[wagglebee]

God not man, and not the pope

Then how do YOU know?

[RnMomof7]

Read your Bible.. It says CLEARLY the crucification was ordained by God.....

[Petronski]

HERE is wisdom:

For instance, 81 percent say that “belief that Jesus is really present in the Eucharist” is essential in their understanding of the Catholic faith. Keep in mind that the survey is of a cross section of the 65 million Catholics in the U.S. (although Latinos are greatly underrepresented). Among the more highly committed Catholics, it is reasonable to assume that belief in the Real Presence is considerably higher than 81 percent. This is worth keeping in mind because some years ago a clumsily worded question in a survey came up with the conclusion that only one third of Catholics believed in the Real Presence, and that “finding” still crops up in discussions on the state of Catholicism.

Source.

[wagglebee]

I used to have the actual survey from a Catholic college on my old computer...but this is from Catholic answers

What does "modern Catholics" mean? Are we talking about in America or worldwide? Where is the data? And how did 30% become half?

Also, I do not dispute that Catholics in the past four decades have been improperly catechized. Not believing something because it has never been taught to you is very different from not believing based on proper teaching.

[RnMomof7]

How I know I am saved..

Romans 8: 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Hebrews 10:15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: 16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”

Christ taught us how to know the saved (by their fruit.).... how do you know someone is a Catholic??

[Forest Keeper]

FK: I suppose I was trying to confirm or not my understanding of Catholicism in that concerning heresy, it is presupposed that the heretic is at least a Christian. ......... Therefore, my kind would be heretics and the term "separated brothers" could be used because we are still Christians

you or your kind -- by that do you mean SBC?

I suppose I was thinking of all Reformers plus all other non-Reformed Protestant types who demonstrate a devotion to the word of God. That would include SBC and the other non-crazy branches of mainline Protestantism (e.g., there is a Baptist church in Kansas that goes around protesting at soldiers' funerals. They are crazies and not included). It would also include independents who clearly love the word of God. (But overall, none of this is concrete.)

Then yes, no one in their right minds could say you aren't Christian.

Well thank you. That's what I wanted to know. :)

But the umbrella term "Protestant" can't get an umbrella definition. There are too many way-out-there groups like the Metropolitan Church etc. who make you raise your eyebrows!! I don't know enough of what they believe to make a statement, but they are very, very liberal.

Yes, there can be no doubt that is true. There are many people and groups who call themselves "Protestants" whom I would never have anything to do with, and I would not consider Christian myself.

[stfassisi]

Read your Bible.. It says CLEARLY the crucification was ordained by God

The Bible does not say that God created people for the purpose of Crucifying Christ-if this were true than Christ crucified Himself by creating man for this.

[Petronski]

A Gallup poll offered a five-part multiple choice question:

In January 1992, the St. Augustine Center Association sponsored a Gallup poll, called “A Gallup Survey of Catholics regarding Holy Communion.”
This poll, which included telephone interviews of 519 U.S. Catholics during the period of December 10, 1991, to January 19, 1992, revealed that

1) 29% of Catholics believe that when receiving Holy
Communion, they are receiving bread and wine, which symbolize the spirit and teachings of Jesus Christ, and in so doing are expressing their attachment to His Person and words.

2) 24% of Catholics believe that when receiving Holy
Communion, they are receiving the Body and Blood of Christ, which has become that because of their personal belief.

3) 10% of Catholics believe that when receiving Holy
Communion, they are receiving bread and wine, in which Jesus Christ is really and truly present.

4) 8% of Catholics hold some other non-Catholic belief.

5) Only 30% of Catholics believe that they are really and
truly receiving the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ under thse appearance of Bread and Wine.

Source.

Those who believe in the Real Presence were divided up among in the confusion of the five answers which were read to them over the phone.

[Uri’el-2012]

U-2012>If this pope as his predecessor believe that Allah, the god of Mohammed is his god, then brother Benedict is lost as well.

I'm sure your position is based on vanity and a desire to claim spiritual superiority and that puts you in conflict with the 3rd Commandment.

The Pope's comments for his actions are based upon the acknowledgment that the Muslims worship the God of Abraham, however imperfectly. The position of the Catholic Church is that all are called to salvation, not just an elect or a chosen people and that there exists a plan for salvation for each. Redemption and Salvation are available to all, including the most vile up until the moment of judgment.

The "god" of Mohammed is not the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob(Israel).

There is only ONE true Elohim; His NAME is YHvH.

If you call on His NAME for salvation it will be granted.

That is why His salvation's NAME Is Yah'shua or YHvH is my salvation.

From His Holy Word this is the only way to seek salvation.

Being a member of a man made enterprise will not bring salvation.

If the Pope teaches

that the Muslims worship the God of Abraham, however imperfectly.

He is wrong and is teaching a false gospel and he is a false shepherd.

The Name of G-d as He has given it to us in Hebrew is
"Yod Hey Vav Hey" starting in Genesis 2:4 for almost 7000 times ---> יהוה

Rabbinical Jews will substitute the word
Adonai or HaShem and will not pronounce YHVH.
The Tradition began in 200 CE.

Karaite Jews do pronounce the tetragamatron as is required in scriptures

• HSN-2142 זכר zâkar to remember, recall, call to mind;
• HSN-7121 קרא qârâ' to call, call out, recite, read, cry out, proclaim
• HSN-7650 שׁבע shâba‛ to swear, adjure

They use the Name of the Most High in written texts and in spoken word
(Jeremiah 12:16; Deuteronomy 6:13; Psalms 30:4; 97:12; 102:12; 135:13; Hosea 12:5; Exodus 3:15).

The use of the name Yahweh began in the 19th century England.

What is the Proper Name of the Most High (YHVH)?

Elohim YHvH has communicated with us through His Word.
He has communicated to us from outside our time-space continuum.
Whether it be three and a half dimensions or eleven dimensions.

He does not communicate to us through some man-made corporation.
He said he would send another like himself ( Ru'ach HaKodesh )
to assist us in understanding His Holy Word.

If you understand the language of Elohim, it is very clear that:
"Yah has become my salvation" is the Name that most refer to as Jesus.

NAsbU Romans 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF YHvH WILL BE SAVED."

NAsbU Joel 2:32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of YHvH Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem There will be those who escape,
As YHvH has said, Even among the survivors whom YHvH calls.

The name Yah'shua means "Yah has become my salvation".

See:

Exodus 15:2; Psalm 18:2; Psalm 27:1; Psalm 62:1; Psalm 62:2; Psalm 62:6;
Psalm 62:7; Psalm 118:14; Psalm 119:174; Isaiah 12:2; Isaiah 46:13;
Isaiah 49:6; Isaiah 51:5; Isaiah 56:1; Isaiah 19:20; Isaiah 43:3;
Isaiah 43:11; Isaiah 45:21; Isaiah 49:26; Isaiah 60:16; Hosea 13:4

YHvH

Yod Hey (Yah) in Hebrew is a Name of Elohim.

vav represents man in Hebrew;

Vav is the number six in Hebrew.
Man was created on the sixth day.
Man works for six days
There are six millennia before the coming of the Messiah.
The beast is identified with the symbol of man "666"

Yah became man ( becoming the Pesach Lamb and shed His blood) for our salvation.

The letter "Hey" is the breath of Elohim. (Genesis 17:5)
When Elohim added a "Hey" to Abram and Sarai's names
making them known as Abraham and Sarah by breathing
the Ru'ach Elohim into them.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach