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To: Heliand
Little children do not need to repent before baptism, because they have no personal sins to repent of, only original sin,

Exactly...And that's one of the reasons there is no baptism given to babies in the scriptures...

Repentance is a requirement of Baptism...Sorry you don't like that but that's what the God of Creation tells us in His scriptures...

and Christ has not limited his Gospel only to adults, but emphatically extends it even to babes in arms:

There is no incident of anyone preaching the Gospel to little babies in the scriptures, and likely for obvious reasons...

“Then were little children presented to him, that he should impose hands upon them and pray. And the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such.” (St. Matthew 19.13-14)

There's no baptism in those verses...

“Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (St. John 3.5) and “Know you not that all we, who are baptized in Christ Jesus, are baptized in his death? For we are buried together with him by baptism into death;

You guys make it a habit of ignoring the rest of the scriptures on Baptism...

Water does not mean Baptism...Baptism does not mean water...Water in John 3 has nothing to do with Baptism in water...

John the Apostle confirms this:

Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

If baptize means water, then Jesus waters with the Holy Ghost...And John waters with water...Or baptizes with baptize...Or maybe waters with baptize...

This is one of the many proofs that baptize does not mean water...And water does not mean baptize...

There is a Spiritual baptism AND a water baptism...They are not the same...Spiritual baptism is required...Water baptism is not...

744 posted on 12/10/2009 5:27:02 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
And that's one of the reasons there is no baptism given to babies in the scriptures.

Then you (a) do not believe original sin prevents children from reaching heaven, or (b) you don't believe in original sin? In which case, why did Christ come?

Water does not mean Baptism...Baptism does not mean water...Water in John 3 has nothing to do with Baptism in water...

Well, that would be your interpretation of Scripture. Clearly mine is different. What makes yours the more valid one other than your own pride? It sure would be easier if Christ had left some authority to explain these things to us, wouldn't it, instead of having to bicker endlessly over the meaning of words.

This is one of the many proofs that baptize does not mean water...And water does not mean baptize...

"Baptizo" means immerse, wash, cleanse. You immerse in water. Water cleanses, giving the appropriate symbolism of cleansing the person of sin.

If baptize means water, then Jesus waters with the Holy Ghost

Precisely. Christ, acting through the person of the priest who is baptizing, infuses the Holy Ghost into the soul of him who is washed in the water. Jesus waters the soul with the Holy Ghost at the same time the body is watered with the waters of the baptismal font. Thus:

"I will pour upon you clean water, and you shall be cleansed from all your filthiness" (Ezekiel 36.25)

And that's one of the reasons there is no baptism given to babies in the scriptures.

And yet, circumcision was "a sign of the covenant between me and you" (Genesis 14.11) and a "a seal of the justice of the faith" (Romans 4.11), and was given to babies. So according to you, its no longer necessary to have such a sign of the covenant between God and man by way of, say, Baptism?

746 posted on 12/10/2009 6:32:59 PM PST by Heliand
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