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To: MarkBsnr; Mr Rogers
My point is that the phraseology of the Synoptics and the OT point to a highly favoured man especially beloved of God - a super David, as it were

Exactly. He is also never worshiped the way God is worshiped by any of the apostles (including Paul!), and that is obvious form the distinct usage of the words which are commonly and confusingly translated as worship (proskyneo) and serve (lautreo) in English but which in Greek mean to revere and to worship respectively.

In fact, the word "liturgy" (public service) comes from the word to serve, and means public worship. People go to a church service (worship), etc. In English, the word "service" has a different meaning except when it comes to church service, which is why it has to be predicated with the type of service in mind.

There is also a variant in Mark's Gospel which has the untruncated Psalmist words (at the baptism of Jesus, Mark 1;10) where the voice from the heave says "this day I have begotten you..." (Ps 2:7) Whoa! This is not even subrodinationalist, but outright adoptionist.

Acts 13:33 actually states that God said those words after he raised Jesus from the dead, suggesting Jesus was not made divine until his Resurrection!

Hebrews 5:5 mirror the same idea when it says "So also Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest, but He who said to Him, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU."

So, Christ needed God to glorify him?

The whole idea that it was God who gave him the powers, God who raised Jesus, God who glorified him, mentioned throughout the NT and early Fathers, suggests a subordinate (lesser) God or a Plat ionic man. Never mind the obvious implication that Jesus had the power to raise the dead but not himself!

Obviously, the vairous authors and various myths and beliefs, collected and included in the NT show a degree of heterodoxy that existed in the early Church, utterly debunking the notion that there was one faith, "everywhere and always" from the beginning.

This flies in the face of the Church dogma and the Nicene Creed, namely that Christ is every bit as much God as the Father or the Spirit and that "on the third day he rose (as opposed to "was raised")" (per the Creed) and "ascended into heaven" (as opposed to "was taken up..."), etc. shows that the divine image of Christ in the Church, fully co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and the Spirit, is not that found in the New Testament.

As for John and his "God was [sic] Word" [Jn 1:1] and Thomas' "My Lord and my God" stunt (I would like to see the oldest copy that has that!) does not agree with much of the rest of John's Gospel.

Such as, for instance, where Jesus says that the Father is greater then he is [Jn 14:28], or where Jesus calls the Father also his God! [Jn 20:17].

So, in all this, and not just the Synoptics, the NT phraseology (the two, in my opinion, questionable exceptions notwithstanding) points to a "highly favoured man especially beloved of God - a super David, as it were," as you wrote.

1,669 posted on 12/20/2009 9:41:12 PM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you.)
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To: kosta50

Plat ionic=Platonic


1,670 posted on 12/20/2009 9:54:00 PM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you.)
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