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To: Mr Rogers; HarleyD; blue-duncan; wmfights; RnMomof7; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Marysecretary; ...
I don't believe in irresistible grace, or that God has predestined individuals for damnation...I'm sick of reading and thinking about predestination/free will. Had it up to my eyeballs, for today!

lolol. Consider it all good.

The more I think about predestination, the truer the concept appears to me. Whatever exists is exactly what God ultimately wants to exist at any moment in time. Or else it would be different. He's God. Nothing occurs without His predetermined intent. If it did, then something would be outside God's control, making God dependent on a man's free choice and action. Yet nothing can exist, by definition, beyond His sustaining purpose.

At the moment of creation everything that was ever going to happen in this life on this earth was written by the mind of God for His glory. And that plan was not based on men's future choices which would mean God and salvation are dependent on men's own righteousness when it is only Christ's righteousness, freely given, which saves anyone.

There's no such thing as a contingency with God (if He is who He says He is) because all "alternatives" in time were factored into God's ordination at the beginning of time.

Therefore we don't pray for God to change His mind. We pray for mercy and guidance and acceptance and strength to live out His will for our lives with a true and grateful knowledge of His grace.

When I finally understood this, life became much more lucid and secure...which is what the doctrine of predestination is meant to give to Christians (although the world works hard to convince us otherwise.)

And finally, it makes sense to me to believe that if God wanted all men to be saved, all men would be saved. I am relieved to rest in His plan for this life and the next. It all comes down to trust.

If God has determined you to be among His family from before the foundation of the world, then at a time of God's choosing the Holy Spirit will make Himself known to you and you will believe and be saved, not because you're better than your unbelieving neighbor, but because it is God's will you come to Him in faith. God's grace is thoroughly and miraculously and inevitably irresistible. As Harley says, 1 Corinthians 4:7 is reality.

Blue-duncan once wrote something I've always remembered --

"The whole sacrificial system was poor copy of the reality that was in heaven and looked forward to it breaking into time. A believers life will catch up with his election in time. At present, believers are seen as perfect in Christ and yet our sanctification is in process and ultimately when we are in the presence of Jesus our sanctification will catch up with the perfection that God sees us in now."

God's will "breaks into time" and becomes who we are and what we do. Therefore Christians are the most fortunate of human beings. It's the temporal world that wants us NOT to believe in God's predestination of all things. Resist the urge to agree with them. 8~)

If your eyeballs can handle a little more print, I really enjoyed Baptist pastor A.W. Pink's great work, "THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD", with emphasis on Chapter 5, Reprobation.

And Jerome Zanchius (yes, an Italian Protestant reformer) who wrote ABSOLUTE PREDESTINATION

"Absolute." A spectacular concept in an age of trillion dollar deficits and Kenyan Presidents.

1,441 posted on 12/13/2009 10:05:14 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Mr Rogers; blue-duncan; wmfights; RnMomof7; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Marysecretary

Amen to your beautiful post. Pink is an excellent read. But I always remember your comment, “If God wanted all men to be saved, then all men would be saved.” I think that is about as clear as it can get.


1,446 posted on 12/14/2009 2:04:08 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Beautiful !

As a sister I love once noted there is great comfort in “Calvinism”

When you cede to God what is already His (sovereignty), you can rest in His power and His might and know you are wrapped in His arms from conception to death..

Fear not, for I am with you;
be not dismayed, for I am your God;
I will strengthen you, I will help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
For I, the Lord your God,
hold your right hand;
it is I who say to you, “Fear not,
I am the one who helps you.”
—Isaiah 41:10,13


1,456 posted on 12/14/2009 1:06:34 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Mr Rogers
God's will "breaks into time" and becomes who we are and what we do.

That would make you a God robot than,and somehow God needs to break into time to turn you into a robot because we are mindless zombies until that happens.

Calvinism is incredibly goofy

1,459 posted on 12/14/2009 4:05:31 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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