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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; Kolokotronis
What I meant was: they don't portray him as God.

Depends on which God, no? There clearly is some indication that he is moving to theosis, yet is more than a prophet and not as high as Heavenly Father (the most high God?).

Obviously you do not consider Christ as human. God does not grow, but Christ is doctrinally also fully human. If he didn't grow as any other child (under grace), then he wasn't fully human, was he?

He was human, but maybe not in the way we are human. He never sinned and in a Jewish household that would include respecting his parents, which the story in the temple seems to contradict. We are throwing out "doctrine" and trying to get to the essence as captured in the Scriptures, no? If we accept doctrine as the fundamental guidepost then there's no need for a Religion Thread is there? Doctrine gives some clues, but it is political and subject to the unclean hands of men.

So we can logically surmise that a baby Jesus grew physically and spiritually and mentally (wisdom - the righteous application of knowledge?). So that his godhood was suppressed until some future date/act? What other conclusion can you come up with from a plain reading of the text. Must we be constrained by monotheism or polytheism as our only choices? If there is a divine hierarchy, yet Jesus achieves theosis thus equalling Heavenly Father - of whom he says they are one - is it common polytheism as practiced in pagan histories?

1,315 posted on 12/09/2009 9:08:21 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD; MarkBsnr; Kolokotronis
Depends on which God, no? There clearly is some indication that he is moving to theosis, yet is more than a prophet and not as high as Heavenly Father (the most high God?).

They portray him as the Jewish meshiyah, a mortal anointed by God to be the warrior-king who will reestablish Israel as God's chosen kingdom on earth, not as a lessor God. O focus he ahs all sorts of powers, givne to him by God, so he can convince others that he is truly the meshiayh, not that he is God.

Lesser God is not a Christian concept. Arians believed he was a "lesser" God. In fact, all Christian Apologetics portray him as a lesser God (subrodiantiopnalist theology). At that time (late 2nd and early 3rd century) the major "enemy" was Gnosticism, not Arianism. Everyone was, more or less, Arian.

He was human, but maybe not in the way we are human.

Then he is not fully human. If he was without sin, he was the best human, not necessarily a different human. he would have been subject to all the passions we are subject to.

He never sinned and in a Jewish household that would include respecting his parents, which the story in the temple seems to contradict.

Depends how you interpret it. :)

We are throwing out "doctrine" and trying to get to the essence as captured in the Scriptures, no?

What would that be?

Doctrine gives some clues, but it is political and subject to the unclean hands of men

And what isn't subject to unclean hands of man?

So that his godhood was suppressed until some future date/act?

I don;t think there ever was anything he did that would qualify as his "Godhood". Jesus represents perfect harmony between human nature and God's nature. He never makes a decision that is contrary to his divine nature. Total obedience. Remember that Judaism emphasizes obedience to God, works. In that sens he 'fulfilled" the law perfectly.

That story is perfect, except for one fleeting moment in the Gethsemane when he asks the Father to take his cup away, but then immediately corrects himself.

What other conclusion can you come up with from a plain reading of the text

I can see how the Bible is the source for all sorts of dogmas.

Must we be constrained by monotheism or polytheism as our only choices?

Doesn't monotheism and polytheism cover all possibilities? What else can there be except one or many gods?

If there is a divine hierarchy, yet Jesus achieves theosis thus equaling Heavenly Father - of whom he says they are one - is it common polytheism as practiced in pagan histories?

What divine hierarchy? Jesus did not "become" divine. Where are you pulling this stuff from? LOL!

The three "Persons" of the Godehead is how God is believed by Chirstians to have revealed himself in the economy of our salvation. This does not mean that this is how God really is in his essence. Just how he revealed dhismelf to man. There is no polytheism.

1,330 posted on 12/10/2009 3:53:43 AM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you)
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