Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: 1010RD; MarkBsnr; kosta50
Also Jesus growing up from grace to grace is not prima facie gibberish at all, but the NT Greek (which I do not speak - Kosta or Kolo would you mind commenting on the better/best translation?)

Compare this:

Τὸ δὲ παιδίον ηὔξανεν, καὶ ἐκραταιοῦτο πνεύματι, πληρούμενον σοφίας· καὶ χὰρις θεοῦ ἦν ἐπ' αὐτό.

with this:

τὸ δὲ παιδίον ηὔξανεν καὶ ἐκραταιοῦτο πληρούμενον σοφίας, καὶ χάρις θεοῦ ἦν ἐπ' αὐτό.

The word πνεύματι is missing in the second variation, an Alexandrian type text. The word means "spirit". As you have noted, it is missing from the New American Standard version. The first version is the Byzantine version and speaks of Christ's spirit.

I like the NKJV, I suppose but the difference between that and the Literal translation isn't of any consequence. Does leaving out πνεύματι in the New American Standard say something about Alexandrian thought on the soul of Christ and thus His natures or nature?

At any rate, if one believes, as I do, that Christ's spirit appertains to His human nature, then growing spiritually is what one would expect. Does this explain the agony in the garden?

You know, this same talk is applied earlier in Luke to John the Baptist and, I think, to Samuel in the OT.

1,306 posted on 12/09/2009 5:22:45 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1288 | View Replies ]


To: Kolokotronis; 1010RD; kosta50
At any rate, if one believes, as I do, that Christ's spirit appertains to His human nature, then growing spiritually is what one would expect. Does this explain the agony in the garden?

It does; however let us also consider that the fledgling Jesus was able to lecture in the Temple; a thing that the vast majority of grown men were unable to do. And what is Christ's spirit as separate from His Godhood; how do you explain that? I think more of Christ's Incarnation for our benefit than for His. God reaching down to us with His Hand from the infinite heights is for our benefit. I'm not sure about the applicability of Jesus growing from from grace to grace merely or mostly so He could experience the agony in the Garden more fully.

1,307 posted on 12/09/2009 5:46:20 PM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1306 | View Replies ]

To: Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; kosta50
At any rate, if one believes, as I do, that Christ's spirit appertains to His human nature, then growing spiritually is what one would expect. Does this explain the agony in the garden?

You know, this same talk is applied earlier in Luke to John the Baptist and, I think, to Samuel in the OT.

I will not be so rude or presumptuous as to argue with your belief that the spirit mentioned in Luke 2:40 is human spirit. I do wish I read Greek, though. Are you saying that Jesus grew as a human and eventually merged into the part of him that was God? Even as I type this it seems so weird. Look at what I just wrote: "part of him". If he is fully human and fully God what part is left? 100% human plus 100% God is a mathematical impossibility.

In the Garden isn't the agony caused by sin, not his but ours?

Your comment got me looking at John's experience and there it refers to the Holy Spirit, not just spirit (soul?). It also says something I've never noticed consciously (an angel (messenger)of the Lord is speaking):

Luke 1:16 And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’[b] and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

b. Malachi 4:5,6

That is the evidence for Jewish apostasy - that many would be turned to the Lord their God. But, why the reference to Malachi? What is the spirit and power of Elijah? The disobedient get turned toward "the wisdom of the just" (what is that?) and a people are prepared for the Lord. Curious, no?

1,313 posted on 12/09/2009 8:47:17 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1306 | View Replies ]

To: Kolokotronis

Luke: 1:8080 So the child grew and became strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his manifestation to Israel. (about John)(NKJV)

40 And the Child grew and became strong in spirit,[k] filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him. (about Jesus)(NKJV) but the note k: NU-Text omits in spirit.(as you’ve stated)

So John and Jesus parallel each other, but Jesus gains wisdom and the “grace of God”. What is the “grace of God”?


1,314 posted on 12/09/2009 8:58:58 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1306 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson