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To: annalex

You write: “For every hyper-Catholic verse in the scripture there is a Protestant commentary that explains it away. Still, these are verses the direct reading of which is Catholic. You have to strain to arrive at a non-Catholic meaning.”

No.

Scripture is not that hard to read, except for the lost.

2 Tim 3 has, “But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

“...so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work”!

If Scripture is useful “so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work”, then what it teaches is sufficient for salvation, and for every critical doctrine. It is sufficient.

To write that the Church is “the pillar and bulwark of the truth” is NOT to write that it is the truth itself, replacing the God-breathed words that Jesus says ARE the truth.

“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” does NOT mean that Paul had a separate teaching he taught orally, but not in his letters, nor does it mean that this secret meaning has been passed down Bishop to Bishop, whispered from lip to ear for 2000 years. However, it DOES mean that we should reject the “unfolding” done by the Magisterium for the last 2000 years, that first drove away the Orthodox and latter drove away the Reformers.

There is a reason the medieval Catholic Church FEARED commoners getting their hands on scripture, and it WASN’T because scripture supported the Catholic Church - which would make the scriptures the pillar, and the Church the truth.

They feared it because every time people got their hands on scripture, they started leaving the Catholic Church in droves. Wycliffe knew this in the 1300s, which is why his followers concentrated on distributing scripture. It made their case for them. That is why Luther translated it into common German, with over 100,000 copies sold within 40 years.

At least the medieval Catholic Church didn’t pretend otherwise. They publicly said scripture was too hard for the common man to understand, and that only doctors of the church could interpret it in light of the Magisterium’s definition of sacred tradition. And in fact, is it not true that even today the Catholic Church says that individuals need the Catholic Church to give the interpretation? That anything I read in the text is merely “MOPIOS” - My Own Personal Interpretation of Scripture - and not to be trusted?

Protestants fought and died to get scripture into the hands of commoners. If “these are verses the direct reading of which is Catholic. You have to strain to arrive at a non-Catholic meaning”, then why did my spiritual forefathers die to make them available? Why did Catholic saints like Thomas More violently oppose them for doing so?

Here is a hint: It wasn’t because the scriptures so obviously support Catholic doctrine...


101 posted on 11/22/2009 12:17:31 AM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers
If Scripture is useful “so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work”, then what it teaches is sufficient for salvation

Not at all. If St. Paul wanted to say that it is sufficient -- including the scripture not yet written -- he would have said so, and he didn't. Don't spin, read.

To write that the Church is “the pillar and bulwark of the truth” is NOT to write that it is the truth itself, replacing the God-breathed words that Jesus says ARE the truth.

What does that have to do with anything? Indeed, Jesus is the truth, but who, according to St. Matthew and St. Paul is the foundation on which we resolve disputes about the meaning of what He said?

[the Scripture] does NOT mean that Paul had a separate teaching he taught orally

Of course not. No one alleged that, either.

it DOES mean that we should reject the “unfolding” done by the Magisterium for the last 2000 years

How?

drove away the Orthodox and latter drove away the Reformers.

The "reformers" should go. They should convert or stop pretending they obey the Scripture. The Orthodox are with us on Sola Scriptura, and on all matters of doctrine important to us. Our disagreements are marginal.

is it not true that even today the Catholic Church says that individuals need the Catholic Church to give the interpretation?

Yes. Ther scripture says so, and it is the point made in the article.

103 posted on 11/22/2009 12:34:40 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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