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To: Alan2; wendy1946
Your facts are not facts. The Book of Breathings is not the Book of Abraham. The papyrus fragments from the Metropolitan Museum of Art are different from the long roll of manuscript that contained the Book of Abraham.

Sorry to hear you try to say this. Hor's breathing permit (the papyri from the Met aka Sensen Papyri) is the origin of the boa. For starters, Facsimile #1 which Smith specifically said this was attached to the scroll at its beginning.

It has further been shown that Smith's hand written MS of the BoA had the hieroglyphic characters with what those characters translated out to be. They are found in the same sequence on the papyrus as the MS.

Facsimile #2 is also linked to the Met Papyrus. An early rendering — perhaps the first — of this hypocephalus is included below. Note the clear indication of a swath of missing papyrus extending from the center to the northeast section of the drawing.

Smith fixed this by copying symbols from Hôr's Breathing Permit and putting them into the gaps

It is clear to real Egyptologist that the insertions are spurious - the writing on the original hydrocephalus is in hieroglyphic, while the insertions are in hieratic (as is the text on the sensen papyri). Also from Smith's annotations of facsimile #2, figure 7 is identified as "Represents God sitting upon his throne, revealing through the heavens the grand Key-words of the Priesthood; as also, the sign of the Holy Ghost unto Abraham, in the form of a dove."

Real egyptologists recognize this common feature of hydrocephalus' as representing the ithyphallic egyptian god Min about to have sex with ithyphallic snake which represents Atum (smith misidentified this feature as a dove - perhaps due to damage of the original). That portion is upside-down and immediately adjacent to the text identified as copied from line 4 in the above image.

Finally, facsimile #3, when translated by real egyptologists, is a continuation of the breathing permit of Hor and based upon the abundance of similar papyri (form letter type prayers) it would have been at the left end of the papyri (egypt reads from right to left) nearly all of the papyrus is present. Smith's writing, the facsimiles and the 'restorations' are all from the same papyri. Denial is not a river in egypt Alan.

55 posted on 11/13/2009 9:10:32 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla; Alan2
Aside from phony documents, the other thing which separates I-slam and Mormonism from normal Christianity (or Judaism for that matter) is the belief in prophets and prophesy in our own age of the world. Prophets, oracles, and a number of other related practices intended to communicate with the spirit realm all stopped working prior to the time of Alexander and Zechariah refers to prophets as unclean spirits and goes so far as to recommend that parents kill children who persist in trying to use their minds that way:

ZEC 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

ZEC 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

ZEC 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

ZEC 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.

All of those practices involved static electricity and trance states like hypnosis and they all stopped working at some point when the planet's ability to support such things collapsed somehow or other. Again static electricity in large quantities was involved and at least two versions of such practices involved electrostatic DEVICES i.e. pyramids and primitive capacitors (the "ark" of the covenant) and presumably those things being inanimate required no trance states since they had no consciousness to overcome to begin with.

Greek city states ran on information from the oracles for centuries and then, like prophets, the information they came back with turned into mush.

Those guys (the last generation of would-be prophets) of course were at least trying to do something believable; Joseph Smith and Muhammed were ordinary con men.

59 posted on 11/14/2009 4:19:26 AM PST by wendy1946
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To: Godzilla
Sorry to hear you try to say this. Hor's breathing permit (the papyri from the Met aka Sensen Papyri) is the origin of the boa. For starters, Facsimile #1 which Smith specifically said this was attached to the scroll at its beginning.

Eyewitnesses from the Nauvoo period (1839–1844) describe “a quantity of records, written on papyrus, in Egyptian hieroglyphics, including (1) some papyri “preserved under glass,” described as “a number of glazed slides, like picture frames, containing sheets of papyrus,with Egyptian inscriptions and hieroglyphics”; (2) “a long roll of manuscript” that contained the Book of Abraham; (3) “another roll”; (4) and “two or three other small pieces of papyrus with astronomical calculations, epitaphs, &c.”

Only the mounted fragments ended up in the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

The Book of Abraham was translated from the long roll of Manuscript, Not from the facsimiles.

61 posted on 11/14/2009 5:42:28 AM PST by Alan2
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