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Posted on 10/30/2009 9:01:19 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Look, I don’t want to get in a fight. I’m just laying out the facts.
And the fact is that the Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (the current Pope) revalidated the Church’s position in 1981 and again in 1983 (after the current code of canon law was enacted).
So it is what it is. If you are a Catholic and are a Freemason, you are in a state of mortal sin. Period. It is an established Magesterial teaching. Not simply that one encyclical...but since 1738.
I’m not going to get in a rant about it. I just posted this information to make sure any Catholics (or those considering becoming that way) know what the Church’s position is.
I agree with you. As noted in my first post: rules are rules.
I would state the reasons for the rules, however, are historical accidents or simple bad information.
Good Christian people should work together to clear up these misunderstandings.
Which of course has absolutely nothing to do with God or Jesus.
Canon law....piffle.
This is ironic considering that Fundamentalist Protestants (many of whom are doubtless Masons) regard the Catholic Church and its doctrine as "Pelagian."
NB: This is merely an observation. I am not criticizing the Catholic position on Masonry.
” tend to believe that it is based upon the inherent Pelagianism in the group. Salvation through self-improvement with Jesus as an example rather than as our Lord, directly contradicts the Christian message of salvation through divine grace.”
Absolute nonsense. The fraternity has NO TEACHINGS or beliefs regarding salvation.
None.
Nada.
Zip.
That’s like saying the Marines or Boy Scouts are guilty of “Pelagianism” because they promise to make you a better man.
BTW, I saw a TV article where the Masonic temple in a large city opened their doors for a rare look at the rituals of Freemasonry.
On a table where a ceremony was taking place could be seen the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad-Gita. These were said to be held as of equal value in giving laws and ethics unto mankind.
Would this be a correct observation?
“Would this be a correct observation?”
Not in my experience.
The only thing permitted in my Lodge (and in any lodge I’ve ever seen) is the Holy Bible, generally King James.
The Bible is called the “Great Light in Masonry” and presented to all masons -— and where masons are directed to set as a “rule and guide” to their lives.
It sounds like made-for-TV hooey.
What is the “Bhagavad-Gi” anyway?
In the movie "Captain Corelli's Mandolin" the doctor's daughter(the female lead part), a Greek girl living on the island of Kephalonia, was named Pelagia, pronounced Pela-hee-ia. Is there a connection with Pelagius, and is that pronunciation similar?
This encyclical is particularly out-of-date, in that the good-meaning pope based his conclusions about masons on the lies of Leo Taxil, who was a bitter anti-Catholic and intentionally misled the pope, “confessing” of his hoax a few years after the Enycical was published.
I believe you are mistaken here. It was the publication of Humanum Genus which inspired Leo Taxil to perpetrate his infamous hoax. It could therefore hardly be seen as a basis for any of the Pope's conclusions printed in that document.
Maybe so, but it was interaction between the two (I think maybe a letter that Taxil based his hoax on, or an earlier hoax of Taxil) that got it going.
I actually read about in a Roman Catholic magazine some years ago, and cut it out.
I’ll see if I can find it.
I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree.
As a life long catholic (and former alter boy) I take offense at the hypocrocy of the RCC.
1) I have traveled the world and have seen people laying hungry on the steps of a church full of gold statues. Why not use some wealth for the betterment of the people? I’m not talking about a meal, I’m taking real help. I seem to recall - “Give a man a fish, he’ll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he’ll eat every day”
2) Politicians who protect abortion should be forbidden to take communion. How come Ted “The Swimmer” Kennedy was given last rights? He wasn’t worried about all those innocent lives he helped snuff out by advocating abortion. What about Polosi? She was given an audience with the Pope. Don’t tell me politics has no influence on the Papacy.
3) Freemasons give a million dollars a day to charities. I have organized toy drives and other events. OK, I don’t do it through the church, but the needy get help. Maybe the chuch isn’t happy that they are not getting the cut?
4) The RCC sponsors hospitals and so do Masons. Most people do not know that the Shiners, as in Shiners Children’s Hopsitals, are Masons. If the RCC and the Free masons could look past their differences, we could help so many more people. Put the BS aside, lock arms, and get things done!
5) Don’t lecture me about “You need to be all in or all out”. Don’t tell me I have to swallow everything that Rome says. I live my life by being the best I can with a strong moral and ethical compass. If I followed as a robot, I would not be using the brains, reasoning, or compassion that God gave me at birth.
6) The priest that married my wife and I also baptized my two sons. Now he owns a gay bar in Deleware. Does this mean I’m not married or that my two sons were not baptized? I think not.
Like I said, I respect your opinion, but I disagree with the church. It doesn’t keep me from attending church or going to confession. I have NEVER done ANYTHING as a Freemason that needs confessing. I don’t have all the answers, but I can only call them as I see or have experienced them. My faith in God is strong and I thank him every day for my family and everything else - including the hard lessons.
PS - No man stands taller than when he is bending over to help a child.
PSS - If there is Mason Ping list, please add me.
FRiend, I am not stating an opinion. I am quoting an objective fact: the consistent teaching of the Church since 1738 (note: the objective part is that this is the teaching; it is for each of our individual judgments whether we assent to that teaching or not)
And the last document I cited above (post #17) says the following:
Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.
That is substantively the same as was initially declared back in 1738 (approximately 21 years after speculative masonry began). If you are interested, you can read the pertinent quote from that Papal Bull in post #17, above.
You said, As a life long catholic (and former alter boy) I take offense at the hypocrocy of the RCC.
As I said in post #19, I really don't want to get into an argument about whether the AF&AM (or any Masonic body) is a "good," "bad," or "hypocritical" organization. So I really don't want to go there. I have known many, many people in my life who were members of the Craft -- most (but not hardly all) were fine, upstanding members of the community. And one would have a hard time not seeing the community projects (the one that comes most to my mind is the network of Shriner hospitals). And it is not to say that the leadership in the Church, particularly within the American Church, is spotless and without blame. You could take a look at any number of my posts within this forum to recognize that.
Having said that, being a faithful Catholic and being a practicing Freemason are mutually exclusive. That is not according to FReeper markomalley's opinion, that is according to the teachings of the Church, including the two small quotes I've given in this thread.
You go on to say, Don’t lecture me about “You need to be all in or all out”. Don’t tell me I have to swallow everything that Rome says…
I'm not lecturing you one way or the other. You inserted yourself in this conversation, not me. If you choose to stand in opposition to a teaching of the Church, that is between you and your God. As long as you don't cause a scandal, I don't personally want to get into your personal life one way or the other. But it does seem rather odd that you criticize the Church of hypocrisy for not denying communion to politicians who don't assent to the teachings of the Church while proudly proclaiming your own defiance.
You then say, It doesn’t keep me from attending church or going to confession. I have NEVER done ANYTHING as a Freemason that needs confessing.
I'm glad being a Freemason doesn't keep you from going to church. I would be surprised to find that any action you took would need confessing. But, again, since you spoke of anger toward pro-choice politicians not being immediately and unceremoniously booted from the Church, if these politicians honestly believe that they have voted for a pro-abortion piece of legislation, while maintaining the position of "I'm personally against abortion and would never do it, but I don't want to impose my religious belief on others" (the usual pro-"choice" cop-out), have they done something that requires them to go to confession?
You are, in essence, advocating the "supremacy of conscience" theory: if you don't believe it's wrong, then it's not wrong. And that is the same justification used by 100% of the pro-abortion "Catholic" politicians. Not telling you what to do here, FRiend, just pointing out that the line of thought you have expressed is identical to the one expressed by pro-choice Catholics.
Oh, and by the way, as for the gay former priest, you, as a former altar boy, I'm sure are familiar with the expression, ex opere operato (if not, you can Google it). So, as long as the sacraments were administered validly at the time, I wouldn't worry about it.
As far as a Masonic ping list, I think you should check with TheThirdRuffian or uglybiker. They could, I'm sure, get you hooked right up.
MASONIC
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Same ol', same ol'.
Well said
No. I’ve only ever observed either a Bible or in one case a Talmud. The Gita definately not as that represents a polytheistic religion.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
Where’s Fred, Barney and the Grand Poobah?
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