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To: Daniel Gregg; Achi
To All;

I can only speak so far for the traditionalists but it seems to me that they understand the Koine Greek word ‘οωέ’ (MTH 28:1) as a preposition that modifies the remainder of the sentence. Thus ‘οωέ’ is interpreted as ‘late’ being an ‘adverb’ in a post sense where it has an effect to mean ‘after’ or at the ‘end of the Sabbath(s)’ to which their logic on the resurrection moment is positioned together by the reciprocation of grammar and theology as they have understood it.

As well, it appears to me in Daniel Gregg's hypothesis that he has presented the word ‘οωέ’ (MTH 28:1) as a preposition that modifies the remainder of the sentence. There ‘οωέ’ is interpreted and chosen as ‘later’ being an ‘adjective’ where it has a sense to mean ’near the end or at the closing of the Sabbaths’. There a different take on the resurrection moment is positioned together by the reciprocation of grammar and theology as he has understood it.

However, Matthew 28:1 is commonly valued for the most part by scholars who understand it as a key resurrection verse that determines the chronology behind all other resurrection verses as they appear in the New Testament elsewhere.

Best Regards – Pmary65

78 posted on 11/13/2009 11:55:06 AM PST by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Pmary65
My views on Matthew 28:1 οψε δε σαββατων are explained here:

Daniel's Literal Translation and Commentary

 

The Later Sabbath After the Passover Sabbath

 

"Matthew 28:1 And the later of the Sabbaths, as it began to dawn on the first of the Sabbaths, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher" (DLT: torahtimes.org).

later...Sabbath: There were two Sabbaths in Passover week.  The annual Passover Sabbath was on Thursday, Nisan 15, and this was followed by the weekly Sabbath on Nisan 17.  The "later of the Sabbaths' refers to the weekly Sabbath.  "Later" is used in the sense of "former" and "later".  The former Sabbath was the annual Sabbath.  The later Sabbath was the weekly Sabbath.

first...Sabbath: The weekly Sabbath was also called the "first of the Sabbaths" on account of Leviticus 23:15, where instructions are given to count seven Sabbaths after the annual Passover Sabbath".

later: Οψε.  The proper definition of this word when used with the genitive case is later.  "The genitive with Οψε and μετ ολιγον  have become associated in meaning with  υστερον τουτων [later of these], προτερον τουτων [former of these]" (BLASS, 164.4, pg. 91, A Grammar of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature).  Thayer's Lexicon observes concerning the errant rendering "after": "but an examination of the instances just cited (and others) will show that they fail to sustain the rendering after." (DLC: torahtimes.org)

1. Mt. 28:1, Moulton, Robertson, and likely B-D-F justify the pragmatic sense "after" in Mat. 28:1 with the ablative. Moulton describes it best, "This use of οψε = after involves an ablative gen., "late from." (pg. 72, Prolegomena).

 

 2. Robertson, pg. 646, "It is a point, for exegesis, not for grammar, to decide."   The reason Roberston must say this is that it depends on the interpretation of the following gentive, and not on the lexical meaning of οψε, whose meaning is implicitly conceeded by the use of this argument NOT to be "after", and thus agrees with the main thesis of the editorial objection in Thayer's Lexicon.   As for the further claim of the editor that the ablative is not in fact used in examples provided, the jury is still out until the source contexts of those examples can be rechecked.

 

3. Daniel B. Wallace, "For example, the genitive of separation [i.e. ablative], a common idiom in the Attic dialect, is rare in the Koine.  It has been replaced, by and large, by απο + genitive" (pg. 163, Basics).  Απο, of course, means "from".

 

4. Therefore, "Later [from]" where "from" is the interpretation is a rare interpretation in Koine, and the Koine normally inserts the word απο to mean "from" in a case like this.

 

5. B-D-F allows οψε in the sense of υστερον τουτων [= later of these]

 

6.  For οψε BDAG provides an example "later than", but as we have seen the "than" is merely a dynamic equivalent gloss for the ablative "from" interpretation.  Therefore, we merely need to interpret the genitive the normal way, "Later of the Sabbaths" in Mt. 28:1 to arrive at the intelligible sense that it means the second of two sabbaths, i.e. the weekly Sabbath after Passover.

 

7.  Where Moulton and B-D-F (pg. 72) translates οψε των Τρωικων "at a late [stage] in the Trojan war" they are being less than accurate, since the Greek says "Trojan wars" in the plural.  So it would be "later of the Trojan wars" or "late in the Trojan wars"; it would be impossible to distinguish "late in" here from "later of".

 

8.  Liddell and Scott qualify the sense "after" with "perh." = "perhaps" showing they are less than certain.

 

9.  Liddell and Scott supply an example οψιγενης = later born, "later-born, i.e. younger", with notice that the prefix form, οψι, is from οψε.

 

10.  Moulton vol. III regarding οψε speculates, "A Latinism? Just After," (Nigel Turner) regarding Mt. 28:1.

 

11. Regardless of the personal opinion of any of these men, the evidence presented by them supports the sense "later of sabbaths".

 

12.  The following concordance shows that consistent sense can be made with "later":

 

Gen 24:11 toward a later time, when the women fetch

Exo 30:8 And when Aaron shall light the lamps later,

Isa 5:11 who linger till later, for wine will inflame them

Jer 2:23 And know what you did later.  Her voice cried

Mat 28:1 And the later of the sabbaths, at dawning for

Mar 11:19 And when later it became, he was going

Mar 13:35 cometh, either later, or at midnight, or at

Ant 16.218 he went at the later hour to refresh himself

Bdag 3.1 later of  the hour decided on;  from?

Bdag 3.2 he arrived later  of/in/from?  the mysteries;

Bdag 3.3 later of/in/from? these

Bdag 3.4 later of/in the fight

Blass 164.4a later of/in the Trojan wars

Blass 164.4b at a later hour

Blass 164.4c later of/in/from? the games

Thay 471 later of/in/from? the times of the king

 

13.  Notice "from?" in some examples. This is because those examples actually have to be checked in the original source again to see if the ablative is required to make sense of the context.

 

14.  Regardless of the personal opinion of these men, they show uncertainty and confusion over the pragmatic sense "after", and though a bit uncareful in their statements clearly appear to reject the lexical sense "after" leaving it to the lexical sense + ablative to yield that pragmatic sense.

 

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Daniel's Literal Translation and Commentary: (http://www.torahtimes.org/translation/mat2801.html)

All Rights Reserved, 2009 by Daniel Gregg.   No part of this article may be copied without including the above reference to the author's original: torahtimes.org.  It is preferable only to include what is in the boxes, however the live link in the second box may be omitted if necessary.

 

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79 posted on 11/13/2009 5:47:55 PM PST by Daniel Gregg (www.torahtimes.org)
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