Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Poe White Trash
This is one of those arguments where everybody needs to take notes and agree on vocabulary.

ONE of the reasons, but only one, is that Constantine, having made Xty legal sought to exercise some authority over it. And the Xtians were not likely to sort of rear back and say, "We liked it better when we were illegal." We're in this for the long haul, and if some guy wants to lord it over us, one option is to hang back until we're in a position to, ahem, clarify things.

But, in related news, We think the St. Peter was Pope before pope was cool, uh, I mean before the word came into use. He was also Pope, we think, before the nature of that role -- which was still being majorly clarified in the 19th century -- was nailed down.

If I may generalize, there's something similar to "projection" going on here. Catholicism is messy, like most organic things. It's not a crisp, clear, legalistic phenomenon with a lot of bright lines and a handbook which is in every instance applicable.

For example, until the Holy See said, "No lay people preaching during Mass and we really mean it, don't make us come up there!" I was allowed to preach at a few Masses, but a priest would introduce me and then do a follow up to sort of officialize my not-a-homily-because-I'm-not-allowed-to-preach-a-homily. That's sort of an example of what I mean by "messy".

Similarly Constantine might even have thought of Himself as THE Big Enchilada, but the real enchiladas were more likely to say to each other "Bide your time," and, to him,"Yessir, that's very thoughtful of you, Sir, uh, Sir, would you mind putting down that legion? Or at least pointing it somewhere else?"

So when you look at things with a post 15th century mindset -- or maybe even a post 13th century mindset -- you get struck by all the messiness and think of it in terms of legal precedent and English common law and completely end up with the wrong end of the stick in your hand.

IMHO.

517 posted on 10/27/2009 2:06:16 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 508 | View Replies ]


To: Mad Dawg
This is one of those arguments where everybody needs to take notes and agree on vocabulary.

Truer words are rarely spoken. Unfortunately, actually DOING this is hard work!

Catholicism is messy, like most organic things. It's not a crisp, clear, legalistic phenomenon with a lot of bright lines and a handbook which is in every instance applicable.

No disagreement from me here.

Similarly Constantine might even have thought of Himself as THE Big Enchilada, but the real enchiladas were more likely to say to each other "Bide your time," and, to him,"Yessir, that's very thoughtful of you, Sir, uh, Sir, would you mind putting down that legion? Or at least pointing it somewhere else?"

Disagreement here. I've read that at the First Council of Nicea, the delegate bishops who attended the initial audience with the Emperor were greeted with the sight of not just Constantine but more than a few soldiers with drawn swords. I gather he was a REAL and BIG enchilada. Perhaps that's why the "Eastern Orthodox" call him St Constantine.

522 posted on 10/27/2009 9:26:36 PM PDT by Poe White Trash (Wake up!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 517 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson