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To: Nikas777
As he entered, a vespers service was under way. Maybe two dozen worshipers stood, chanting psalms and hymns. Incense filled the dark air. Icons of apostles and saints hung on the walls.

And the congregation grew by 4%, with the addition of Mr Oren. How many of the other two dozen worshipers were Protestants?

6 posted on 10/07/2009 6:44:06 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (...We never faced anything like this...we only fought humans.)
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To: Alex Murphy

“Incense filled the dark air. Icons of apostles and saints hung on the walls.”

Sounds like when I was in college. Whoever knew the Beatles were saints?


7 posted on 10/07/2009 6:52:55 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Alex Murphy

“More Protestants” means more than one? Or more than zero?

I’m sure the Orthodox Antioch Church is perfectly charming, but this is a truly Eastern level of number-futzing.


8 posted on 10/07/2009 6:55:12 AM PDT by Tax-chick (There is no "I" in "Tejano conjunto." It's all about the mission.)
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To: Alex Murphy

The church at Ben Lomand has had a tortured history. At the time Mr. Oren attended vespers there the parish had a population of about 1500 people, most of whom were converts. The convert priests became disobedient to +Philip, the Metropolitan of the Antiochian Archdiocese and were removed. Lets just say they had some odd and distinctly unorthodox ideas and ways. They and about 300 of their followers went off on their own. The parish today, I am advised, is vibrant and successful.


10 posted on 10/07/2009 7:02:06 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Alex Murphy

The visible shift began in 1987 with the conversion of nearly 2,000 evangelical Christians, led by Peter E. Gillquist and other alumni of the Dallas Theological Seminary and the Campus Crusade for Christ. More recently, a wave of converts has arrived from such mainline Protestant denominations as the Episcopalian and Lutheran.
Some 70 percent of Antiochian Orthodox priests in the United States are converts, according to Bradley Nassif, who, as a theology professor at North Park University in Chicago, is a leading scholar of the religion. A generation or two ago, Professor Nassif said, converts made up barely 10 percent of Antiochian clergy.

Professor Nassif went so far, in a 2007 article in Christianity Today magazine, as to suggest that the 21st century might become the “Orthodox century” as disenchanted Protestants grew attracted to the historical roots, theological rigor and social conservatism of the Eastern Christian denominations.

Whether or not the prediction pans out, it is certainly true that no American convert comes to the Antiochian church by convenience or ease. The denomination has only about 250,000 members in 250 congregations in the country, Professor Nassif estimated.


11 posted on 10/07/2009 7:02:30 AM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Alex Murphy

Vespers is the pre-game warm-up: Not essential, but really beneficial if you want to do it right. Usually the vespers crowd in the Byzantine churches I’ve been in is about 10% of the full crowd, mostly single people and parish leaders.


15 posted on 10/07/2009 7:06:38 AM PDT by dangus (I am JimThompson)
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To: Alex Murphy

Vespers is like the pre-game. Two dozen worshipers is actually a good size crowd.


22 posted on 10/07/2009 7:32:23 AM PDT by wilco200 (11/4/08 - The Day America Jumped the Shark)
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To: Alex Murphy

Notice, that was Vespers. It doesn’t say what day of the week. If it was any day other than Saturday and not the vigil of a major feast, an attendance of 12 would be a good turn out even at a big urban church in a traditionally Orthodox country. In the early 90’s, I’m fairly sure the parish in Ben Lomond served Vespers and Orthros (Matins for you Westerners), and maybe even Liturgy, daily. A typical Sunday Liturgy at Ben Lomond during that time period would have had, I’d guess, between 100 and 200 Orthodox faithful.


50 posted on 10/08/2009 7:40:08 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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