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To: kosta50

***Herein lies the rub, Mark, “in bodily form.” God taking the form of an animal/bird is utterly pagan.***

Well, yes, and no.

God took the form of a man aka Jesus Christ when it became apparent that His spiritual form wasn’t good enough to get peoples’ attention. The precedent may have been set quite adequately.


63 posted on 09/26/2009 7:16:57 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
God took the form of a man aka Jesus Christ when it became apparent that His spiritual form wasn’t good enough to get peoples’ attention. The precedent may have been set quite adequately

The Gospel accounts of the Baptism of Jesus differ, so they can not be taken literally, especially Luke. In one, for example, God (or voice form heaven) addresses the audience and in the other addresses directly Jesus; in one there is a dove-like HS descending and in the other there isn't, etc.

More importantly, the Church recognizes only one hypostatic union, that of divine and human, in the miracle of Incarnation. The Church does not teach that the HS is a dove, i.e. that it exists in two essences (or natures).

Obviously the "appearance" is not the same as the essence. The same can be said of the Mount Tabor transfiguration. Visions are often used in the Bible as perceptions but they are not necessarily reality.

Assuming the HS took the form of a dove is pagan, as animal-god concepts are encountered in Egyptian, persian, Hindu and other pagan religions. In that, Luke stands alone. The reason for "dove" is the idea that it is a 'love' bird, that it is a symbol of love, the love that exists between the Father and the Son, but this is not theologically completely true, given the Triniatrian theology of the Church, namely of three co-equal, co-eternal hypostatic realities in one essence (see Seventh Ecumenical Council of 786).

That such iconography exists only shows that even clergy (who allowed it) are not theological experts and that there is subliminal heresy festering in the Church at all times.

66 posted on 09/26/2009 10:01:54 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg
God took the form of a man aka Jesus Christ when it became apparent that His spiritual form wasn’t good enough to get peoples’ attention.

I am getting a better understanding of your religious views. Your tagline gives credit to the Catholic church for guiding you to Christ, and the statement above is just plain denial of the power of God, as well as a profoundly ignorant understanding of Scriptural Prophecy and history.

It "became apparent" to God before He created everything. You must spend quality time in the Scriptures to know God, my FRiend. You may know the words of your priests, but you display a profound ignorance of His Word. With the help of His Holy Spirit, you won't need YOPIOS. You will have the Mind of God indwelling. Don't believe my words, believe what Jesus had to say about it...

Luke 24 : 44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."

*****

John tells us ...

John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 n him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 1 3children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

****

Acts 1 ; 7He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

... and since you love Peter so much, he repeats Jesus' promise of the Holy Spirit for our ONLY guidance...:

Acts 2 ; 29 "Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet." '

36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"

38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call." .

75 posted on 09/26/2009 4:57:56 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Futility: trying to slam a revolving door!)
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