I am not MHG, what you arrange with him is between you two. Decorum here is if you mention me by name, you should at least ping me since you are talking specifically about me.
I have not tried to make it personal, I will review my use of pronouns. .
Fine, but you are still 'excusing' Follow the Godzilla link above, the rest of your waffling is just fluff IMHO.
When you then go on to say he needs help, that is not personal too?
I have spoken of my beliefs both of God and of your motivations, but those were my beliefs, not your actual intentions.
Do you mind read to know my motivations or my actual intentions? Didn't think so.
As is hijacking a thread and changing the topic of discussion... care to talk about LDS leaders encouraging members to testify of Jesus? if not, why not?
You were the one who started the polygamy subject. Here. This is not the first time I have pointed that out to you
As is hijacking a thread and changing the topic of discussion... care to talk about LDS leaders encouraging members to testify of Jesus? if not, why not?
This is a puzzling complaint about a thread hijack by the instigator - as proven already above.
You know, in my book forgiveness by a Christian should not include a continuing castigation for the offense, but hey maybe you red the bible differently than I, in fact, I'm sure of it.
There is a difference between conditional and unconditional forgiveness. See Luke 17:3 for the standard.
I believe, according to the Religion Moderator's rules, you are not allowed to tell others what my motives are, and since I have stated them here plainly, you really have no cause to question them.
Before picking apart (again) 1 John 4 and its misapplication, you have every right under the rules to keep recycling that challenge. However, it is equally valid to challenge the fundamental basis of that "test" on the grounds of arguing for or against a belief - which is what you are espousing. And next we will see that the biblical support for your test is flawed.
I believe that my page as posted above addresses this scripture in exactly the way John intended, The Docetic heresy, was only one of many the church was fighting, and John's words were meant, I believe to be an answer to all who search for God's truth and want to separate it from error.
You link to the Docetic heresy is only to a crude definition that is not totally accurate. John was addressing a specific challenge - a form of gnosticism that denied that "Christ" was present in a bodily form. John identified that this belief system was outside of Christianity (as one of the Apostles, he should well know what that definition was). Therefore, Docetism was not a Christian belief, but a heresy as you correctly identified.
How did John intend for the passage to be understood? Context, context and context DU. What was the key heresy of doceticsm? It was a brand of gnosticism that taught the human body, which is matter, is therefore evil. It is to be contrasted with God, who is wholly spirit and therefore good. Thus they tried to deny Jesus' true humanity by saying that it seemed that he was in physical form (Docetism, from the Greek dokeo (“to seem”)). What did John's test specify?
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Lurkers will note that the test is the confession (homologeō) is that Jesus was here in the flesh - a confession (homologeō) that a docetic gnostic would be unable to make.
So is John saying test the book of mormon, or test the homologeō of those "claiming" to be Christians. The passage is pretty straight forward just from the context. This homologeō has nothing to do with the book of mormon (or any other religious book for that matter).
If that wasn't enough, the word "try" (dokimadzo) in verse 1 means to 1) to test, examine, prove, scrutinise (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), as metals 2) to recognise as genuine after examination, to approve, deem worthy
Now what does this have to do with praying about a religious book? Prayer by itself doesn't accomplish the above. We have our example of this being the Bereans. They anakrinō (searched) the scriptures in a way best presented by Strong's definition-
1) examine or judge
a) to investigate, examine, enquire into, scrutinise, sift, question
- specifically in a forensic sense of a judge to hold an investigation
- to interrogate, examine the accused or witnesses
b) to judge of, estimate, determine (the excellence or defects of any person or thing
That goes WAY beyond prayer - and that is the methodology provided by the Bible. The combination of dokimadzo and anakrinō to these new 'teachings'. That is why God called them noble
The lurkers can compare what the Bible says about 'testing' a new doctrine or teaching versus the subjective (and biblically flawed) presentation of mormonism (which is also presented here minus the subjective 'burning bosom' validation every missionary teaches).
GZ: and you (along with millions and millions of others) will come away with the same answer, Joseph smith was a false prophet and the book of Mormon is fiction.
So where exactly do you get the right to tell others what the spirit will tell them?
For starters DU, the above is a statement of fact, millions and millions have rejected mormonism after the 'test' (even many here in FR who have taken the 'test'). Many leave mormonism after they have realized that the 'test' was only emotional manipulation by the missionaries. Were people to apply the true principles laid out in the bible (combination of dokimadzo and anakrinō), even fewer will be fooled by mormonism.
You are telling them what that answer will be.
By the very authority of the Bible the answer is already there. It is their choice to follow a path that leads otherwise.
Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.