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To: Colofornian

Yah, OK...
I got it. Call me when you’re read enough to debate...


16 posted on 09/20/2009 5:04:55 PM PDT by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for ForgotenKnight, my army hero grandson.)
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To: Monkey Face; Colofornian
I can see you're truly an expert of interpersonal relationships. When asked what I noticed first about living once again among the Mormons I answered, "Naive Arrogance".

It appears you are living proof of that assessment.

Lighten up and Take Five

20 posted on 09/20/2009 5:17:41 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, Where Freepers Roam Seeking America)
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To: Monkey Face; DelphiUser; novemberslady
I got it. Call me when you’re read enough to debate...

The Mormon "Christ" is a pre-existent spirit, they say, like you or me...whose difference is...
(a) mere spiritual birth order--having been first;
(b) was twice made a son of God via Mary; and
(c) died for Adam's sin so folks could be resurrected (his role as Savior).

The true Messiah was born in Bethlehem as the Bible foretold and affirmed post-birth--not like the Mormon jesus of Mormon "scriptures" supposedly born in Jerusalem.

Other than that, the lds jesus is not the Son of God from eternity past. He worked his way up to godhood status. He's not an exalted God-become-man, but an exalted man-become-God. He was an elder spirit bro of Lucipher. Had you or your brother been "first" in that pre-existent spirit world birth order, he could have been Christ!!!

This "jesus" is foreign to the Bible. The Messiah of the Bible shared the glory with the Father in the beginning (John 17:5). This Jesus is THE Son of God, not just a son of God. And THE Son of God did not consider equality with His Father something he couldn't let go of while becoming a man (see Philippians 2). Phil. 2 makes it clear He was already divine, not just a "wannabe" God like Dear Ole Dad.

The True Jesus Christ: Savior, not a Saved Being

In contrast, the Mormon christ is but a "saved being"--a mere creature like dear ole Dad: "Christ is a saved being” (lds apostle McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257) “Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ‘ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth ‘ (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a saved being... (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234) (Please also see McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation)

I'm sorry. The real Christ is the Savior of the world: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42).

In contrast, the Mormon christ is one savior among many:

"...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (lds "prophet" John Taylor; Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163).

No, "saviors of the world" are not plentiful (1 John 4:14; John 4:42).

The Mormon "jesus" really didn't die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature...cause if we get to Mormon heaven we discover the Mormon doctrine of men are subject to punishment for their own sins--not Jesus as our Substitute [LDS second article of faith: "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression." The flip side of this belief is that Jesus wasn't punished for our sins--men will be...Jesus was simply punished for Adam's sin to release us to "free agency."]

The True Jesus Christ: Creator of All Things & All Beings, Not Simply a Creature

The Jesus of the Bible created all things--including all angels...including even Lucipher (see Heb 1; John 1; Col. 1:16; see even D&C 93:9-10). This Jesus didn't atone for sins by sweating blood in the garden; He did it on Calvary as the Bible proclaims.

Conclusion:

The Mormon "jesus" upon spirit birth was not unique other than his spirit birth order. He's just one god among millions of Mormon "gods." (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball not all that long ago told 225,000 gathered that perhaps "225,000 gods" were among them then!!!)

I worship this Messiah, just like God told the angels to do in Hebrews 1:6. And I challenge grassroots Mormons to defy their leaders when they tell them NOT to directly worship Jesus (see Mormon 7:7; 2 Nephi 25:29; 4 Nephi 4:37; 3 Nephi 11:17; 3 Nephi 17:10).

I directly pray to this Jesus as Stephen did in Acts (7:59) -- and even as the supposed Book of Mormon disciple characters DIRECTLY and repeatedly did to Jesus in 3 Nephi 19: 6-26...again -- a Mormon "scripture" de-emphasized & ignored by Mormon leaders.

Thomas calls Jesus his God in John 20:28; even the Nephite disciples likewise called Jesus “their Lord and God” (3 Nephi 19:18). D&C says Jesus is God (19:4; 62:1; etc.) Since there’s only one true God in the bible and in the LDS scriptures (for example, Pearl of Great Price says "no God besides me" (1:6), either Jesus is a false god or the one true God. As Jesus Christ is a God to Thomas (John 20:28) -- so Thomas has two gods?

Jesus Christ is my Lord, my Savior, my God! He is the Only Lord, the Only Savior, the Only True God!

23 posted on 09/20/2009 5:25:51 PM PDT by Colofornian
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