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I take a much broader view than most. The Apostles say that the "End Times" were occurring even in their time, so as I said above, that much of the preterist view I must accept (sola scriptura).

I agree that the end times began after the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. I guess I'm taking a more narrow view that the Tribulation will be 7 years as indicated in Daniel 9. I think it will be a literal 7 years because the literal time line matches up perfectly for Jesus and his ministry and crucifixion in the first part of the prophesy.

It is interesting to me that these two witnesses are thought to be dead and rise up alive into the clouds just as the 7th trumpet is sounding... That has it's own amazing connotation.

It just occurred to me that if the 7th trumpet is sounding after their death they are killed towards the end of the great Tribulation. IOW, the rebuilding of the Temple could be at the start of the Tribulation, simultaneously with the Treaty the Antichrist enters into. The 3 1/2 yrs they witness does not have to be at the start of the Tribulation.

I agree in part, but do not forget that Rome, the iron of the statue, has TWO LEGS. Even as there are two feet of iron and mirey clay (concrete). I think the Mahdi is the first of these, but I also see the European leg gaining ground.

We forget that the capital of the empire was moved to Constantinople before the Roman Empire collapsed. I think Europe will be involved but I think the Roman Empire that rises again will be from Istanbul, Turkey. I think Europe will willingly go along because of the rise of Islam there and the decline of Christianity.

The indigenous birth rates are very low and within a couple generations Christians will be minorities. I don't believe Rome, or the RCC, will play much of a role other than trying to coexist with a hostile religion that is a majority.

Communism/Globalism is paving the way for that world government.

After the collapse of the USSR who would have thought it possible.

Thanks for your thoughtful responses. You've got me rethinking about when the 2 witnesses are killed. BTW, I think they are Elijah and Enoch. The two humans who never died.

Don't get me wrong - I believe the Tribulation will be a literal 7 years too.

You miss my meaning. The 7th angel who blows the 7th trumpet seems to start in Rev 10:1, and a bunch of stuff is going on in that scene Rev 10:1-11:15. One of the things it states in 10:7:

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The Prophecy ends, for all intents and purposes at the blowing of the 7th trump.

Rev 11 picks it up by defining the time of the gentiles (42 months)... When that is completed, apparently, Jehovah will give power to his two witnesses, which are the two candlesticks, and two olive trees which stand before the Lord.

The two witnesses are identified in Isaiah as the House of Ephraim and the House of Judah. The wild olive (in diaspora) and the cultured olive. One is blind, and one is deaf.

Ephraim was shown no mercy, divorced, cut off, had no sons. But Jehovah vowed to remarry, to enter into a new covenant with Ephraim. See the Barren Woman verse in Isaiah 54, which happens just after Christ's death in Is 53.

Ephraim is the fruitful bow. Ephraim inherits the gentiles. Ephraim carries forth the New Covenant in Christ.

Judah remains blinded in part on purpose (according to God) The purpose it to bear witness to the Old Covenant in Abraham.

If the "two witnesses" are not two persons, but are the "two sticks of Ephraim and Judah" joined together (seeing and hearing fully in Christ) and empowered by the predicted latter rain... And if a great martyrdom occurs finally ending in Jerusalem, with the bodies lying in the streets...

At this point the 7th Trump is about to blow, and the Prophecy is rolling up.

Who comes at the sound of the 7th Trump with the voice of an archangel, and why would the dead in the streets rise up? This may be an account of the Rapture.

I am not saying it is so, nor does it preclude the physical embodiment of two physical witnesses. But remember the first coming... most folks at that time had expectations that were wrong... Supposing Elijah would come back in the flesh...

I agree with you about Constantinople. I see that. But the European leg of Rome didn't fall altogether either... I see them both as continuing, although the possession of the Holy Land is what seems to be pursuant to the Prophecy.

But, I think Islam will be utterly destroyed as a religion in the Battle of Magog. I think it's holy places will be laid low, and it's prophecies made null. It may continue as part of the universal humanism, but it's jihadi days would be done.

I was more interested in European Rome, the state, than the RCC in this context. I do believe the two legs will have their turn, first the Muslims in the Battle of Magog, then the world in the Battle of Armageddon, under the auspices of the antichrist, the Assyrian (German), in the same old bid for world dominion from Europe and the UN.

As to the RCC, I have my reservations (which I have made plain here may times)... but then all churches are going to be tempted to follow the world, even as many do now.

I don't think there are that many generations left. The greater scourge is not Islam, but something that looks alot more "Christian", but with a humanist, communist bent. Jehovah said there would be a great deception, and Islam, in it's hateful message, is hardly deceptive. What comes after will taste "sweet in the mouth, but make the belly bitter"...

JMO...

Thanks for your reply