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To: WVKayaker

***Roman Catholics (and those who refuse to use the Roman tag) have been taught all of their lives that the Church is responsible for their salvation.***

We are not taught that and it is written nowhere. You keep posting stuff like this and we keep telling you that it is wrong. Do you have any more proofs than last time we talked?

***But God gives us the Holy Spirit as a teacher, if we ask. If we ask the RC priest, we will get a RC answer. It doesn’t matter that the Bible forbids most of their liturgical display with smells and bells.***

Do you have any examples of forbidden smells and bells?

***It’s much more comfortable to sit in a pew and stand or kneel according to rote, than to sit in a still place waiting to hear from God.***

Do you kneel before God?

***Paul wrote to the Roman church...

...It’s easier to have a prescribed role rather than the flow described by Paul. ***

I thought that you were a Christian. Christians pay attention to Christ and His words, noting commentary from others, such as the bishops (Peter, Paul, James) through the prism of Christ. If one starts with only one bishop (Paul) and then reduces the view of the infinite God to the finite views of one man, then the belief system developed is far different, and not the Christianity of the early Church.

Again, we come to the idea that many self described Christians do not follow the belief system of Christianity - and the repudiation of the beliefs of the Apostles is a very good indicator.


89 posted on 09/10/2009 9:51:21 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
Fellow FReeper. I can't debate you on your terms. The platform you choose is not an equal one. You assume facts NOT in evidence. I am not posting to you for my own purposes. I am a Christian, though I don't swear allegiance to any Pope. Jesus said not to call any man father. Yet, you expect me to accept the "Holy Father" in Rome as Christ's sole leader on Earth.

No thanks. I will trust my soul to the only Mediator I need! You're just another Pharisee, as far as I've seen!

Mark 7: 1 The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus and 2 saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were "unclean," that is, unwashed. 3 (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.)

5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with 'unclean' hands?"

6He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.

7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

9 And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 11 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.'

17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

20 He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21 For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.'

91 posted on 09/10/2009 10:12:39 AM PDT by WVKayaker (Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -Arthur C Clarke)
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