[Catholic Caucus] Was an Anti-Abortion Bishop Too Vocal for the Vatican? (Martino)

Time ^ | 9/2/2009 | Amy Sullivan

[SevenofNine]

OH OH sound like Vatican bosses didn’t like outspoken this what I gather so he has been take care of

You know how things work out in Italy KEEP YOUR MOUTHS SHUT that how old school Bosses keep it in the family

[markomalley]

Ping to post #10.

Here is the thing I have observed before: we conservatives have the common sense and the innate knowledge. But not speaking the lingo as well.

Here is my thesis: many of the hard-core social justice types will never be won over; on the other hand, there are squishy ones who are trying to be good Catholics and do the feel-good thing.

Well, if you can inculcate some of the real meanings of the words, like "human dignity" or "common good" or "solidarity" or "participation" or "option for the poor." The terms are defined in the Compendium. And the Compendium references all of the important Magesterial documents.

So the point is that if you can cite the applicable documents and actually discuss them (rather than just spew memorized facts), you might be able to win over some in the group. Not the hard-core ones, but some of the others.

And if you want / need to be able to read the citations, you can buy an inexpensive Netbook and download all the applicable documents to it, so that they are immediately available.

One good place to practice your skills is on the Catholic Answers Forums. They are stocked full of liberals.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Given that Pope Benedict appointed +Raymond Burke to head the Apostolic Signatura (Church equivalent of the Supreme Court) and given that Burke has ruled that Canon Law (Canon 915) forbids pro-abort Catholic politicians to receive Holy Communion (see the text of the ruling as well as summary reported here), and given that many American bishops have either remained in silent disobedience to this ruling, or have even, like former Washington, DC Abp. McCarrick, actively and mutinously blocked this message---

I think it's safe to say that "the Vatican" (meaning the Pope and his chief canonist) support Martino's outspoken fidelity ---

And also safe to say that there are those in the USCCB, and in Martino's own Diocese, who forcefully oppose him and incessantly undermine his authority.

It is no exaggeration to say that the Household of the Faith includes ---I am choosing my word carefully here ----traitors.

We need to pray, and pray hard, for strength and grace for Bishop Martino and the remnant of faithful pastors.

[Mrs. Don-o]

BTW, thank you for quoting the incomparable Fr. Z. He's splendid. I just have to wonder: why would anyone take Amy Sullivan seriously?

I mean, really.

[markomalley]

As I said in my original post, I do believe there is something more than meets the eye here. Though I do not believe that she (the Time author) has it right (as many of my peers have said, this is a bunch of liberal hogwash)

I watched the video of the press conference where he announced his resignation (available on the diocesan website). Frankly, he did not appear to be ill, exhausted, or depressed in that presser. Having said that, I haven’t heard that much from him (vice having read that much), so my impression could be misinformed because of that lack of familiarity.

I would tend to suspect that there was political pressure from the more liberal faction of the bishops’ college placed on Abp Sambi. Or it could be a money issue from his diocese’s benefactors. Or something else that we simply don’t and won’t be able to know about at all. But I have a hard time believing that exhaustion alone would garner him more than an authorized rest for a period of time.

What will be most telling to me is who is named as the next bishop.

[Desdemona]

I posted this on another thread:

My guess is that administrative styles are coming under scrutiny. Last year's "removal", our very own Archbishop Raymond Burke, was a lightning rod on pro-life issues, but the general consensus around here is that he was Peter Principled up for reasons of job performance in the administrative arena. Now that he's been gone for a bit, the stories from the Chancery on leadership style are surfacing and they aren't pretty - from holding grudges, to denying promotions to men who are truly worthy, to really BAD personnel moves to fiscal irresponsibility. Get a couple drinks in the right people and all sorts of stuff comes out. My guess is Martino is more of the same.

[markomalley]

My guess is that administrative styles are coming under scrutiny. Last year's "removal", our very own Archbishop Raymond Burke, was a lightning rod on pro-life issues, but the general consensus around here is that he was Peter Principled up for reasons of job performance in the administrative arena. Now that he's been gone for a bit, the stories from the Chancery on leadership style are surfacing and they aren't pretty - from holding grudges, to denying promotions to men who are truly worthy, to really BAD personnel moves to fiscal irresponsibility. Get a couple drinks in the right people and all sorts of stuff comes out. My guess is Martino is more of the same.

With all of the "deep background" leaks that came out during the Bush Administration, I have grown very suspicious of details that "emerge" like that, particularly if those details come out from unnamed sources (don't know if you have them first-hand from people you personally know and trust or if the rumour mill is running -- you know, "I heard from a friend of a friend from a priest who worked in the prefect's office and was really in the know"). Not much difference between a chancery and a governmental agency, if you think about it.

[Desdemona]

Well, my sources are: one employee of the Chancery who is in a position to know the part about holding grudges (which I believe considering who hasn't been promoted); two employees of the Cathedral - and these are the ones I REALLY believe - that have physical evidence; my own observation after four and a half years of Burke reign; a few priests and the state in which he left the archdiocese when he left. Basically, we're broke. Rigali has us WAY in the black and Burke was the one who closed parishes. There's a lot more behind the scenes than is known. We won't get into the PR nightmares that had nothing to do with orthodoxy or church teaching. Yeah, StL was a test and he failed.

[livius]

What will be most telling to me is who is named as the next bishop.

I agree. I have been sensing that there is some kind of struggle going on in Rome, though. The bizarre things that the editors of L'Osservatore Romano have gotten away with publshing, the obvious adoration of Obama by L'OR and some curial types, and the strange leaks and attempts to play "gotcha" with the Pope make me wonder who's winning.