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To: rjsimmon
As someone who went through the Ordination ceremony for priesthood, I would disagree.

Suuure you were.

Mary knew quite well that she was in need of a Savior.

And she had one! She was redeemed from the moment of her Immaculate Conception.

Explanation of the dogma

In Catholic teachings the dogma is explained as follows:

1. The essence of original sin consists formally in the lack of sanctifying grace. Being preserved from original sin, Mary entered existence in a state of sanctifying grace.

2. Mary's freedom from original sin was an unmerited gift of God's grace.

3. The efficient cause of the Immaculate Conception was Almighty God.

4. The meritorious cause was the Redemption by Jesus Christ. It follows from this that even Mary was in need of redemption and was, in fact, redeemed "by the grace of Christ" in a more perfect way than other human beings. Christ's redemption frees all humanity from original sin. The uniqueness of what Christ has done for Mary is that she was freed from original sin before ever inheriting it, while the rest of humanity is freed after it has been inherited from Adam and Eve. Thus, this dogma in no way contradicts the dogma that all children of Adam are subject to original sin and in need of a savior.

5. The final cause of the Immaculate Conception is her Motherhood of God.

Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, p. 199, via wikipedia.
38 posted on 08/17/2009 9:53:38 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski
She was redeemed from the moment of her Immaculate Conception

Why don't you point me to that snippet of Scripture. Since you were able to pull the IC dogma out of your hat, you should be able to find the chapter and verse of where Mary did not need a savior, that she alone needed no redeemer, where she alone was without sin.

I'll be waiting... but in the mean time, while the music softly plays in the background, here is something for you to ponder:

1Jo 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Hbr 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are-yet was without sin.

56 posted on 08/17/2009 10:10:06 AM PDT by rjsimmon (1-20-2013 The Tree of Liberty Thirsts)
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